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The New Coffee Room

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  3. This number surprised me

This number surprised me

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  • MikM Offline
    MikM Offline
    Mik
    wrote on last edited by
    #3

    Some interesting stats here.

    https://blog.dol.gov/2021/11/9/veterans-in-the-labor-force-6-stats

    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

    1 Reply Last reply
    • HoraceH Offline
      HoraceH Offline
      Horace
      wrote on last edited by
      #4

      I've never been able to quite swallow the notion that joining the military constitutes a selfless personal sacrifice. I think the decision makes sense as a pure economic one, and I think that's why the majority do it. Which is fine, just don't expect me to stand and clap at airports for the people in the gratuitous fatigues.

      Education is extremely important.

      jon-nycJ N Aqua LetiferA 4 Replies Last reply
      • MikM Offline
        MikM Offline
        Mik
        wrote on last edited by
        #5

        Yeah, an all-volunteer military it doesn't hold quite the same cache.

        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

        1 Reply Last reply
        • HoraceH Horace

          I've never been able to quite swallow the notion that joining the military constitutes a selfless personal sacrifice. I think the decision makes sense as a pure economic one, and I think that's why the majority do it. Which is fine, just don't expect me to stand and clap at airports for the people in the gratuitous fatigues.

          jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by
          #6

          @Horace said in This number surprised me:

          I've never been able to quite swallow the notion that joining the military constitutes a selfless personal sacrifice. I think the decision makes sense as a pure economic one, and I think that's why the majority do it. Which is fine, just don't expect me to stand and clap at airports for the people in the gratuitous fatigues.

          Especially when they get to board first.

          You were warned.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • HoraceH Horace

            I've never been able to quite swallow the notion that joining the military constitutes a selfless personal sacrifice. I think the decision makes sense as a pure economic one, and I think that's why the majority do it. Which is fine, just don't expect me to stand and clap at airports for the people in the gratuitous fatigues.

            jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by
            #7

            @Horace said in This number surprised me:

            I've never been able to quite swallow the notion that joining the military constitutes a selfless personal sacrifice. I think the decision makes sense as a pure economic one, and I think that's why the majority do it. Which is fine, just don't expect me to stand and clap at airports for the people in the gratuitous fatigues.

            Though I think this changes quite a bit during periods when deployment to a war zone is a near certainty.

            You were warned.

            HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

              @Horace said in This number surprised me:

              I've never been able to quite swallow the notion that joining the military constitutes a selfless personal sacrifice. I think the decision makes sense as a pure economic one, and I think that's why the majority do it. Which is fine, just don't expect me to stand and clap at airports for the people in the gratuitous fatigues.

              Though I think this changes quite a bit during periods when deployment to a war zone is a near certainty.

              HoraceH Offline
              HoraceH Offline
              Horace
              wrote on last edited by
              #8

              @jon-nyc said in This number surprised me:

              @Horace said in This number surprised me:

              I've never been able to quite swallow the notion that joining the military constitutes a selfless personal sacrifice. I think the decision makes sense as a pure economic one, and I think that's why the majority do it. Which is fine, just don't expect me to stand and clap at airports for the people in the gratuitous fatigues.

              Though I think this changes quite a bit during periods when deployment to a war zone is a near certainty.

              yes.

              Education is extremely important.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • N Offline
                N Offline
                NobodySock
                wrote on last edited by NobodySock
                #9

                Not all vets get any priority when it comes to filling a federal job. There is a one point veterans preference as well as a 5 point disabled vet prefereance when it comes totaling up the point scores of all the applications. But a guy like myself who served during a period of non conflict, 1984-88; I get 0 preference points in my application. Now if I had been serving during let’s say the iraq war around 1990, I would indeed have that 1 point, regardless if I was a grunt on the line,or a paperpusher with shore duty stateside. Not a perfect system but there it is.

                The only real benefit I receive as a vet is having those four years added to my federal service retirement but only if I pay for it. It comes out to something like 3% of my enlisted pay over those four years which was not really that much. I think my bill was around 1200buckswhich is a no brainer to pay for if one is making a career out of federal work. Unfortunately I have yet to buy back this time and until I do, those 4 years will not be added to my total time served. The bill is no longer 1200 dollars today though, there is accumulated interest and today that bill is over 6000 dollars. As long as I pay for it prior to retiring I am good

                1 Reply Last reply
                • HoraceH Horace

                  I've never been able to quite swallow the notion that joining the military constitutes a selfless personal sacrifice. I think the decision makes sense as a pure economic one, and I think that's why the majority do it. Which is fine, just don't expect me to stand and clap at airports for the people in the gratuitous fatigues.

                  N Offline
                  N Offline
                  NobodySock
                  wrote on last edited by NobodySock
                  #10

                  @Horace said in This number surprised me:

                  I've never been able to quite swallow the notion that joining the military constitutes a selfless personal sacrifice. I think the decision makes sense as a pure economic one, and I think that's why the majority do it. Which is fine, just don't expect me to stand and clap at airports for the people in the gratuitous fatigues.

                  Yes, that was my reason. Had nothing to do with patriotic duty at the time, purely economical. The patriotism grew slowly after: I joke to people who give me the standard line when learning I am a vet “thank you for your service”. By telling them that this gratuitous phrase has been replaced with something more meaningful. It is now officially, “can I buy you dinner sir?”

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • HoraceH Horace

                    I've never been able to quite swallow the notion that joining the military constitutes a selfless personal sacrifice. I think the decision makes sense as a pure economic one, and I think that's why the majority do it. Which is fine, just don't expect me to stand and clap at airports for the people in the gratuitous fatigues.

                    Aqua LetiferA Offline
                    Aqua LetiferA Offline
                    Aqua Letifer
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #11

                    @Horace said in This number surprised me:

                    I've never been able to quite swallow the notion that joining the military constitutes a selfless personal sacrifice.

                    Watching you share that opinion at your local post would be interesting.

                    Please love yourself.

                    HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                    • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                      @Horace said in This number surprised me:

                      I've never been able to quite swallow the notion that joining the military constitutes a selfless personal sacrifice.

                      Watching you share that opinion at your local post would be interesting.

                      HoraceH Offline
                      HoraceH Offline
                      Horace
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #12

                      @Aqua-Letifer said in This number surprised me:

                      @Horace said in This number surprised me:

                      I've never been able to quite swallow the notion that joining the military constitutes a selfless personal sacrifice.

                      Watching you share that opinion at your local post would be interesting.

                      Unimpressive response. Is it to say you disagree with my point, or just that you would find it interesting to watch me get beat up, or whatever your imagination projects onto that thought experiment? I mean, I don't plan on driving down to the local fort and bullhorning about how troops don't care about their country, but I just bet there are congenial ways to introduce the economic motivations into conversation without getting punched out by big bad soldiers.

                      Education is extremely important.

                      Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                      • HoraceH Horace

                        @Aqua-Letifer said in This number surprised me:

                        @Horace said in This number surprised me:

                        I've never been able to quite swallow the notion that joining the military constitutes a selfless personal sacrifice.

                        Watching you share that opinion at your local post would be interesting.

                        Unimpressive response. Is it to say you disagree with my point, or just that you would find it interesting to watch me get beat up, or whatever your imagination projects onto that thought experiment? I mean, I don't plan on driving down to the local fort and bullhorning about how troops don't care about their country, but I just bet there are congenial ways to introduce the economic motivations into conversation without getting punched out by big bad soldiers.

                        Aqua LetiferA Offline
                        Aqua LetiferA Offline
                        Aqua Letifer
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #13

                        @Horace said in This number surprised me:

                        @Aqua-Letifer said in This number surprised me:

                        @Horace said in This number surprised me:

                        I've never been able to quite swallow the notion that joining the military constitutes a selfless personal sacrifice.

                        Watching you share that opinion at your local post would be interesting.

                        Unimpressive response.

                        Geez, tough room today.

                        Is it to say you disagree with my point, or just that you would find it interesting to watch me get beat up, or whatever your imagination projects onto that thought experiment? I mean, I don't plan on driving down to the local fort and bullhorning about how troops don't care about their country, but I just bet there are congenial ways to introduce the economic motivations into conversation without getting punched out by big bad soldiers.

                        I think it's weird that you're talking about "joining the military" as an act of singular motivation. To me it indicates a lack of understanding about veterans, either academic or personal. Some of them are indeed desk jockeys who wanted to be so, and personal sacrifice was in no way a motivating factor. They would agree with you about how ridiculous that assumption is. Others join up for very personal reasons and the possibility of sacrifice absolutely factored in. I would have thought that was obvious.

                        Please love yourself.

                        HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                        • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                          @Horace said in This number surprised me:

                          @Aqua-Letifer said in This number surprised me:

                          @Horace said in This number surprised me:

                          I've never been able to quite swallow the notion that joining the military constitutes a selfless personal sacrifice.

                          Watching you share that opinion at your local post would be interesting.

                          Unimpressive response.

                          Geez, tough room today.

                          Is it to say you disagree with my point, or just that you would find it interesting to watch me get beat up, or whatever your imagination projects onto that thought experiment? I mean, I don't plan on driving down to the local fort and bullhorning about how troops don't care about their country, but I just bet there are congenial ways to introduce the economic motivations into conversation without getting punched out by big bad soldiers.

                          I think it's weird that you're talking about "joining the military" as an act of singular motivation. To me it indicates a lack of understanding about veterans, either academic or personal. Some of them are indeed desk jockeys who wanted to be so, and personal sacrifice was in no way a motivating factor. They would agree with you about how ridiculous that assumption is. Others join up for very personal reasons and the possibility of sacrifice absolutely factored in. I would have thought that was obvious.

                          HoraceH Offline
                          HoraceH Offline
                          Horace
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #14

                          @Aqua-Letifer I generally give others the grace of assuming they're not making categorical claims that are trivially falsifiable, and that the psychological stew that goes into any decision is complicated.

                          Education is extremely important.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • LuFins DadL Offline
                            LuFins DadL Offline
                            LuFins Dad
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #15

                            I would think that most of the enlistments from October, 2001 through January, 2008 had at least some patriotism and self-sacrifice involved.

                            The Brad

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • RenaudaR Offline
                              RenaudaR Offline
                              Renauda
                              wrote on last edited by Renauda
                              #16

                              My son turns 18 next Saturday. He will complete high school in June. He has been accepted into a general arts programme at one of the smaller universities in the city. I am suggesting that he enlist as a reservist so he will be guaranteed manageable part time work during the school year and full-time work in the summers as a Class C reservist in training. Likewise, I would also encourage him to enlist in the RegForce ranks full time should he decide not to attend university at this time. Better that than some low paying civi-street retail or hospitality services job.

                              Nothing wrong with a career in the military. From my own experience as a Reservist I wish I had enlisted when I was younger than I was. Once you reach 23 years of age you can do it and manage it, but no one can convince you that you really like it. I did serve as Reservist for five plus years and was Commissioned by the time I transferred to the Supplementary Duty list. Was I good soldier? Probably not, but I did my duty as required and knew my trade as well as could be assessed at the time. Why did I enlist? There was a Cold War and we were a member of NATO. I guess duty called and I was also single.

                              Still, best to start young at an age when camaraderie among peers really does matter in your life.

                              Elbows up!

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • MikM Offline
                                MikM Offline
                                Mik
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #17

                                My cousin is retired Canadian Army. He had an excellent career. Now lives in Ottawa doing much the same work but as a consultant.

                                “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                                • MikM Mik

                                  My cousin is retired Canadian Army. He had an excellent career. Now lives in Ottawa doing much the same work but as a consultant.

                                  RenaudaR Offline
                                  RenaudaR Offline
                                  Renauda
                                  wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                  #18

                                  @Mik

                                  Interesting….. I also have a cousin who retired from the military and settled in Ottawa. He too does technical consulting work in his former military trade. He’s older than I am by five years I think. Lost his wife to cancer two years ago. Am hoping to see him this summer when he comes out to BC this summer for a family gathering and memorial.

                                  Elbows up!

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • MikM Offline
                                    MikM Offline
                                    Mik
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #19

                                    My father is the only family member who ever served in the US, but he was also the first American born. On the Canadian side we have a long line of career military.

                                    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • JollyJ Offline
                                      JollyJ Offline
                                      Jolly
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #20

                                      The military has always been very strong in my community. Very few sailors, some Air Force, but mostly Marines and Army. And because one of the largest National Guard bases in the country is just down the road, a lot of the young people that do a hitch in the Army, go into the Guard. Many of them full-time.

                                      The military gives these kids opportunity. Maybe they want the training that is sometimes offered, maybe they serve a hitch in the infantry and then use their benefits to go to school or maybe they just want the extra check the NG provides.

                                      Regardless, because so many serve, we accord them a lot of respect and gratitude. There's also that small community natural patriotism that exists. And for many, it's a legacy thing.

                                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

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