In which jon-nyc stakes out an unconventional opinion on the Covid-19 outbreak
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@Loki said in In which jon-nyc stakes out an unconventional opinion on the Covid-19 outbreak:
@Aqua-Letifer said in In which jon-nyc stakes out an unconventional opinion on the Covid-19 outbreak:
@Loki said in In which jon-nyc stakes out an unconventional opinion on the Covid-19 outbreak:
@Mik said in In which jon-nyc stakes out an unconventional opinion on the Covid-19 outbreak:
For everyone else, perhaps. For me, no problem.
I'm not underestimating anything. None of these things exist today and as far as I know there is no concrete plan for any of them. When I see that I will perhaps change my position
You are no longer the majority opinion (boomer). Young people have lives, jobs, families to contemplate which depend on getting out there and making money not to mention a raison d’etre
The vast, vast majority of us are still able to do so and continue to.
I’m not saying they are not now. I totally disagree the current situation is tenable without a clear plan in 4 weeks. Each week will see the plan solidify. It’s already started, we are to phase 2 right now. Granted the slope back up will be slower than the slope down but just watch all the trends. The exception to this is the economic pain.
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I'm with Mik. I'm not doing a damn thing until (1) there's a good plan in place and (2) it's actually being implemented.
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I hope you are right, Loki, and it would certainly make sense for you to be. I just don't see the evidence yet. I am sure a lot is going on in the background, but the tracking, etc. are herculean tasks that may not go over well with Americans. I already know folks who think this is just a big population control cover to strip us of our Constitutional rights.
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@Mik said in In which jon-nyc stakes out an unconventional opinion on the Covid-19 outbreak:
I hope you are right, Loki, and it would certainly make sense for you to be. I just don't see the evidence yet. I am sure a lot is going on in the background, but the tracking, etc. are herculean tasks that may not go over well with Americans. I already know folks who think this is just a big population control cover to strip us of our Constitutional rights.
So they would rather stay home clutching their guns and bibles?
The Audicity of Hope.
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You are no longer the majority opinion (boomer). Young people have lives, jobs, families to contemplate which depend on getting out there and making money not to mention a raison d’etre
They're also less likely to die
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Here is the plan I want to hear from our
leadershipelected officials.- The state of emergency is over.
- We'll let you know if we hear anything more about covid.
- No guarantees on your lifespan.
- Sorry for the interruption.
Or something like that, I'm sure they could wordsmith it a little
I can figure it out from there.
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@Copper said in In which jon-nyc stakes out an unconventional opinion on the Covid-19 outbreak:
- No guarantees on your lifespan.
Cops should say that when they pull people out of nasty car accidents.
Firefighters should when they get people out of burning buildings.
Actually they should just say that, stop, and call it a day.
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What has become blindingly obvious in this thread is that y'all don't know enough working class folks.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Jolly said in In which jon-nyc stakes out an unconventional opinion on the Covid-19 outbreak:
What has become blindingly obvious in this thread is that y'all don't know enough working class folks.
This should be good. How many would enough be? Actually no better yet, I'd love for you to tell me the kind of people you think I fraternize with.
Please love yourself.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in In which jon-nyc stakes out an unconventional opinion on the Covid-19 outbreak:
@Jolly said in In which jon-nyc stakes out an unconventional opinion on the Covid-19 outbreak:
What has become blindingly obvious in this thread is that y'all don't know enough working class folks.
This should be good. How many would enough be? Actually no better yet, I'd love for you to tell me the kind of people you think I fraternize with.
Not enough of the right kind, if you want them to lose their jobs, their homes and most of their future.
Does that work for you?
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I don't think that would be a function of the right or wrong kind; I think that would be an indicator of my being an asshole. Which I am, in the disagreeable sort of way. Not in that way.
I've already said many times where I stand on this. Do it safely, minimize the risk. A whole lot of industries can already do this. It's the high-risk ones that need more time, and there are relatively few of those. And so yes, keep them closed. Hell tax me more to pay for it, I don't give a shit. Unemployed is better than dead. Feel differently all you like.
As for the class stuff, the folks I know with those jobs are still working. Between them and me, I'm the one with a shaky job future.
Please love yourself.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in In which jon-nyc stakes out an unconventional opinion on the Covid-19 outbreak:
I don't think that would be a function of the right or wrong kind; I think that would be an indicator of my being an asshole. Which I am, in the disagreeable sort of way. Not in that way.
I've already said many times where I stand on this. Do it safely, minimize the risk. A whole lot of industries can already do this. It's the high-risk ones that need more time, and there are relatively few of those. And so yes, keep them closed. Hell tax me more to pay for it, I don't give a shit. Unemployed is better than dead. Feel differently all you like.
As for the class stuff, the folks I know with those jobs are still working. Between them and me, I'm the one with a shaky job future.
No, you're not an asshole. You're scared. You may not admit it, but it's obvious at a certain level. In your case or Jon's case, scared is not bad, it's prudent. I've been scared part of my working day and we don't have anywhere near the level of nastiness seen in Baton Rouge, much less New Orleans. I have three comorbidities and if I get a decent case if COVID, life could be interesting. But I do the job. Mainly because I'm used to it, I'm pretty good at it and in some small way I help people.
OTOH, I've been here before. I was in that generation that staggered through the beginnings of the AIDS epidemic, before we knew what caused it or why people were dying. I've also come to the realization that I'm not living forever and God will call me when he's ready, not when I'm ready. Let go, and let God, I guess.
In normal conversations, though, I can hear the worry in some people's voices. They don't have the money to sit at home for an extended period of time. Some don't even have jobs to go back to, or they don't know when things will be back to normal, if ever. The phlebotomist I worked with today, was furloughed by her main job this last Thursday. She has a disabled husband at home, a kid finishing up college and a mortgage to meet. And until some semblance of half-normal comes back to healthcare, her prospects are looking grim. And there are many millions in her shoes or even worse.
At some point, the cure is worse than the disease. Now how we go back to work or when, is open to debate. But we are going to have to bite the bullet at some point. Maybe not May first. Maybe not the middle of May.
But it's not going to be much longer than that. The country simply can't stand it.
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I'm with Jolly 100% on this.
The UK seems to have hit a plateau of about 1k deaths a day by the way. I'm guessing construction will be first to return to work here, maybe in June?
Then shops.
Schools and Universities will be back in September/October, having learnt that you can do much online, and Universities may be considering their whole operational future. -
Jolly is missing the point. It’s not that I (or Mik, or mark, or Aqua, if I may dare to speak for them), don’t want people to return to work. It’s just that we want an effective test and trace regimen in place when we do so.
It’s possible to end the economic catastrophe without a huge secondary (and probably more) waves.
I just don’t see enough will to do it.
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@jon-nyc said in In which jon-nyc stakes out an unconventional opinion on the Covid-19 outbreak:
Jolly is missing the point. It’s not that I (or Mik, or mark, or Aqua, if I may dare to speak for them), don’t want people to return to work. It’s just that we want an effective test and trace regimen in place when we do so.
It’s possible to end the economic catastrophe without a huge secondary (and probably more) waves.
I just don’t see enough will to do it.
That's a wonderful sentiment, but it may not be possible, either through an inability to test at the necessary level or Americans not allowing themselves to be traced. I know people who put their cellphones in a cooking pot as soon as they get in the car, not taking it out until they get back home.
So, what do we do?
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There have got to be safety protocols, massive testing, and contact tracing in place. Even if that takes another month, in my book that would be worth it. You want a line in the sand, there you go, that's mine. I like the Ohio plan.
I think what we don't do, because it would be absolute worst thing possible to do, would be to flip the switch and everyone returns to normal life starting Monday.
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