Bolton
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It’s true that Bolton warned against Trump, like the vast majority of Trump’s cabinet level picks. But that doesn’t change the fact that he was highly critical of Biden with respect to Afghanistan, Iran, and Israeli conduct of the current war. I mentioned the Obama administration only to point out that he’s been critical for decades, not months.
And the fact that he's among the most credible and effective never-Trump allies the Biden admin had against enemy #1, he even wrote a book, do you suppose, jon, that that might override what Bolton said, in what I am sure were civil political disagreements, on Fox, or maybe WSJ op eds? Do you suppose that would provide reasonable motivation for Biden and his handlers to consider him an ally?
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I'm happy to end the discussion there, thank you.
I’m not quite yet. You can look at the totality of Bidens actions via a vis maintaining, or not maintaining, SS protections and decide that Bolton must have kept his because he wrote a book critical of Trump. In my case it seems obvious given the totality of information that it was more likely based on threat levels.
You could also look at Trumps behavior similarly and decide it was driven by threat level assessment. I think his refusal to grant Bolton protection back in 2020 gives the lie to that.
Here I’m happy to end it.
@jon-nyc I'm happy you were able to confirm your priors, without resorting to the most ridiculous idea presented in this thread - that the Biden admin shouldn't have seen value in protecting a champion of the war against Trump's reputation. You should have hand waved a "totality of evidence" motte to begin with, it would have been faster. It's non-disprovable, so it's safe.
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@taiwan_girl said in Bolton:
Do you suppose that would provide reasonable motivation for Biden and his handlers to consider him an ally?
I think to some extent, yes. The "enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing.
Yeah it's sort of obvious. Jon has abandoned his stance on this though, to the relief of anybody who cherishes real discussion and who might have just had lunch.
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I believe the discussion was about O'Brien and the fact that Biden's handlers rescinded his. Your "totality of evidence" claim indicates that that was because of "threat assessment". Because to admit that politics might have played a role, would weaken the rhetorical punch of "spiteful Trump".
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It’s conceivable there’s some non-obvious back story between O’Brien and Biden that caused Biden to finally reject an extension after granting it at least twice (I’m not clear on the timeline). But the continued protection of other officials rather weakens the case that Bolton got it for hating on the fat man.
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I've read reports that there was internal pressure on the Biden admin to continue O'Brien's. They didn't.
It's difficult to imagine intelligence agencies being able to be so specific that they can say "that guy, that guy right there, he's received death threats from Iran, but we're sure they're not after him now. Let's save 6 million and not give him protection next year". But I know, that's the world you have to live in for your "totality of evidence" theory to hold.
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It’s like you missed my last post. Let me repeat it.
It’s conceivable there’s some non-obvious back story between O’Brien and Biden that caused Biden to finally reject an extension after granting it at least twice (I’m not clear on the timeline). But the continued protection of other officials rather weakens the case that Bolton got it for hating on the fat man.
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"Bolton got protection for hating on the fat man" has never been a central claim of mine. I was responding to your ridiculous notion that the Biden admin should have been expected to have antipathy for Bolton, but kept his SS, which proves they are objective and fair. It proves nothing of the sort. The Biden admin absolutely should have been expected to value Bolton's life very highly.
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And how about Mike Espers? And Pompeo? And Hook? You have yet to acknowledge what their inclusion in the list does to your overall argument, to the extent that you have one. (Of course I get that nipping at my heels is the point and you don’t necessarily have an argument).
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I suspect there is some sort of back story with O'Brien which made Biden's handlers drop him. Having worked for Trump in some capacity is not enough, if that's the point of your comparisons with Pompeo et al.
Again, you have to live in a world where the intelligence services are able to say "that guy, that guy right there, he's received death threats from Iran, but we're sure they're not after him now. Let's save 6 million and not give him protection next year". So, just to be clear, that's the world you live in, right?
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No, I suspect we are going to see a lot of changes at the Secret Service. I think we are going to see assets pulled from peripheral figures such as Bolton or Pompeo. I suspect they are getting out of the counterfeit investigation business.
Pique, realignment, efficiency, whatever.
Times are changing...
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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No, I suspect we are going to see a lot of changes at the Secret Service. I think we are going to see assets pulled from peripheral figures such as Bolton or Pompeo. I suspect they are getting out of the counterfeit investigation business.
Pique, realignment, efficiency, whatever.
Times are changing...
Pique, realignment, efficiency, whatever.
Spite.
This is first day stuff. The shock and awe planned including rewarding friends and smiting enemies. I don’t think they spent the last 45 days studying cost efficiency in the secret service with the idea to unleash efficiency moves day one.
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I don't really understand this whole argument. Is anybody seriously trying to argue that Trump isn't petty and vindictive and takes everything personally?
The best anybody has managed to come up with is 'Trump is coldly rational when dealing with Bolton, but is emotionally attached to O'Brien, so his better nature leads to him allowing him to keep his security', which seems to be an extraordinarily generous assessment of Trump's personality.
I was only joking
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When you look at everything through a blue lens, everything has a blue tinge.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Jolly’s answer to your question is ‘yes’.
