The Hegseth "incident."

[Jolly]

Epic collapse, no argument. Bad candidate replaced by worse candidate.

But...Has there ever been a candidate for POTUS that...

1. Had been defeated in his reelection bid?
2. That had been impeached twice?
3. That had a Whitehouse coordinated lawfare campaign ran against him, starting when he left office?
4. That was pilloried by a House "investigative" committee in Prime Time?
5. That was outspent during the campaign 3:1?
6. That had 90% of the media arraigned against him?

You can one or two of those in other successful bids, but I don't think you can
get a majority, let alone all.

[Horace]

Right guy, right time, but the same can be said for many historically important figures. You could make a case that Trump is the right candidate for generations of people educated on the internet. Now, the left would say that that means it's all because of mis and disinformation, but I would say it's because the internet has shown the mainstream elite class to be posers who can't actually back up their pretensions of being the educated adults in the room, regardless of how much they believe that.

Was talking to my mom yesterday and she was telling me about one of her friends in her elderly white female friend group. Big leftist, big Trump hater. She's the educated one, she's the smart one, all the Trump supporters are idiotic conspiracy theorists. You can't even parody these people, because they all live the parody, and they are everywhere. When we moved here, the first neighbor couple we got to know, the wife was entirely that person. Just pure sneering in all political issues, against the right. The degree to which this repulsive condescension became the mainstream, unashamed personality of the left, it's just magnificent. That stuff will have to be unwound, if they would like to win elections going forward.

[Jolly]

@Horace said in The Hegseth "incident.":

The degree to which this repulsive condescension became the mainstream, unashamed personality of the left, it's just magnificent. That stuff will have to be unwound, if they would like to win elections going forward.

Amen.

[jon-nyc]

@LuFins-Dad said in The Hegseth "incident.":

Was the Trump campaign the biggest comeback ever? Or was it one of the biggest collapses by the Dems ever?

Neither.

Recall Nixon not only lost in 60, he then lost statewide election in CA. Everybody, including Nixon himself, wrote off his future political career.

As for the Dems, they suffered a clear loss but put it in historical perspective- Trump’s win was the 44th biggest electoral college victory out of the 60 we’ve had. That’s like 75th percentile.

[Horace]

@jon-nyc said in The Hegseth "incident.":

@LuFins-Dad said in The Hegseth "incident.":

Was the Trump campaign the biggest comeback ever? Or was it one of the biggest collapses by the Dems ever?

Neither.

Recall Nixon not only lost in 60, he then lost statewide election in CA. Everybody, including Nixon himself, wrote off his future political career.

As for the Dems, they suffered a clear loss but put it in historical perspective- Trump’s win was the 44th biggest electoral college victory out of the 60 we’ve had. That’s like 75th percentile.

Yeah, but, as your side is fond of saying, he's Donald Trump. Imagine the headwinds he faces in the minds of every sane human being, and then to still get a 75th percentile win. That should be impressive, all the moreso as one's own opinion of Trump decreases.

[jon-nyc]

Look at you, the soft bigotry of low expectations.

[Horace]

@jon-nyc said in The Hegseth "incident.":

Look at you, the soft bigotry of low expectations.

Of whom do I have low expectations? I made a claim to the psychologies of those who hate Trump, and how that should make them more impressed with his win. That claim isn't based on expectations, it's based on what those people say.

[LuFins Dad]

@jon-nyc you’re trying to quantify the rhetorical. Did DJT overcome 2 impeachments, multiple felony indictments and an almost conviction of 36 counts, a civil sexual assault litigation, and being labeled an insurrectionist and literal Hitler because he’s so incredible? Or did people elect him because they thought the alternative was even worse?

[taiwan_girl]

Regarding the Sec. of Defense - still not sure why people with TDS (Trump Deification Syndrome) think he is a qualified candidate? (regardless of "well, so and so was Secretary and had no qualifications")

In any normal organization, picking someone from his level and trying to make him CEO would be laughed at.

[George K]

@jon-nyc said in The Hegseth "incident.":

Trump’s win was the 44th biggest electoral college victory out of the 60 we’ve had.

And in 2016, his margin of victory (in electoral votes) was greater than Biden's in 2020 (77 vs 74) , and only 7 less than JFK (77 vs 84). Looks like 2024 will be the more than JFK.

[Horace]

I only learned this election that electoral vote numbers per state, change every year.

[LuFins Dad]

@Horace said in The Hegseth "incident.":

I only learned this election that electoral vote numbers per state, change every year.

Not every year, every census.

[Jolly]

@taiwan_girl said in The Hegseth "incident.":

Regarding the Sec. of Defense - still not sure why people with TDS (Trump Deification Syndrome) think he is a qualified candidate? (regardless of "well, so and so was Secretary and had no qualifications")

In any normal organization, picking someone from his level and trying to make him CEO would be laughed at.

In any normal organization, you're not choosing from an incestual talent pool.

[taiwan_girl]

@Jolly I agree with you.

But I think if Senators looked at this with ration, it would be much better. Tell the President to be that this candidate just is not qualfied. Dont make us reject him.

(yes yes yes yes, both sides are guilty. If VP Harris won, and she nominated a Sec. of Defense with the same qualifications, all the Dem senators would be talking about how great he was.)

At some point, putting blind loyalty in front of good of the country is not a good thing.

[jon-nyc]

@George-K said in The Hegseth "incident.":

@jon-nyc said in The Hegseth "incident.":(in electoral votes)...

Not a valid comparator over time as the number of total EVs has increased.

[Horace]

@taiwan_girl said in The Hegseth "incident.":

@Jolly I agree with you.

But I think if Senators looked at this with ration, it would be much better. Tell the President to be that this candidate just is not qualfied. Dont make us reject him.

(yes yes yes yes, both sides are guilty. If VP Harris won, and she nominated a Sec. of Defense with the same qualifications, all the Dem senators would be talking about how great he was.)

At some point, putting blind loyalty in front of good of the country is not a good thing.

Corporations are judged by easily quantifiable measures of success. There is no such measuring stick for government organizations, and that fact complicates the selection process of the employees at every level, including the top. We can say that a bad CEO will be bad for the corporate profits. What can we actually say about a "bad secretary of defense"? Some hand waving about geopolitical stuff that armchair generals have lots of opinions about?

[taiwan_girl]

@Horace Part of the problem is that most government appointed positions like the one we are talking about force the leader to be very short term focused because they know they are gone after just a few years and really have no accountability for their actions.

"Oh, I did this and it resulted in this immediate positive impact" Even though in five years it is a major problem and the initial thing never should have been done.

Good CEO's have the ability to think longer term. (Yes, they are also watching the stock price on a day to day basis........ LOL)

[Jolly]

@taiwan_girl said in The Hegseth "incident.":

@Horace Part of the problem is that most government appointed positions like the one we are talking about force the leader to be very short term focused because they know they are gone after just a few years and really have no accountability for their actions.

"Oh, I did this and it resulted in this immediate positive impact" Even though in five years it is a major problem and the initial thing never should have been done.

Good CEO's have the ability to think longer term. (Yes, they are also watching the stock price on a day to day basis........ LOL)

The U.S. military is not a corporation. Any sane corporation would have cut its expenses and fed Taiwan to the Chinese Dragon a long time ago.

[George K]

@jon-nyc said in The Hegseth "incident.":

@George-K said in The Hegseth "incident.":

@jon-nyc said in The Hegseth "incident.":(in electoral votes)...

Not a valid comparator over time as the number of total EVs has increased.

Are you saying that Biden‘s margin of victory in 2020 should be discounted?

[George K]

@jon-nyc said in The Hegseth "incident.":

Not a valid comparator over time as the number of total EVs has increased.

Since 1912, the number of electors has risen by 7.

Still a greater margin than Bush (twice), Carter, and Biden.