Could Anything Have Been Done Different?

[taiwan_girl]

@Jolly said in Could Anything Have Been Done Different?:

Depression.

People don't tend to want to come to your country during an economic depression.

GDP
2013. 2.12
2014. 2.52
2015. 2.95
2016. 1.82. (AVG = 2.20). Obama 2nd term
2017. 2.46
2018. 2.97
2019. 2.47
2020. -2.21. (AVG = 1.42). Trump term

[Jolly]

Okay, you're right and 72M Americans are wrong.

Next...

[taiwan_girl]

Do you disagree that total overall illegal border crossings during the first term of President Trump were higher than the last four years of President Obama?

[LuFins Dad]

@taiwan_girl said in Could Anything Have Been Done Different?:

Do you disagree that total overall illegal border crossings during the first term of President Trump were higher than the last four years of President Obama?

I agree that total observed border crossings were somewhat higher, yes. But those stats are observed. The number of border patrol agents were higher and the number of possible entry points were lower..

[Jolly]

Trump flipped a South Texas county. A county populated by greater than 90% Latinos. A county that had not gone Republican for over 100 years.

Go crawl up on a hickory stump and peddle those papers to them.

[Horace]

I hope there exists a sweet spot, after Trump starts doing something about the border, where TG will appreciate that he's doing what he said he'd do, but not yet criticizing him for being mean to illegal immigrants. There will be no such sweet spot TDS sufferers, but our TG isn't really a TDS sufferer.

[taiwan_girl]

@LuFins-Dad said in Could Anything Have Been Done Different?:

@taiwan_girl said in Could Anything Have Been Done Different?:

Do you disagree that total overall illegal border crossings during the first term of President Trump were higher than the last four years of President Obama?

I agree that total observed border crossings were somewhat higher, yes. But those stats are observed. The number of border patrol agents were higher and the number of possible entry points were lower..

DOnt want to go too far into the "weeds", but data shows border patrol agents were about the Trump vs. Obama years

https://www.cbp.gov/document/stats/us-border-patrol-fiscal-year-staffing-statistics-fy-1992-fy-2020

My point for @jolly is that President Trump is very good with the "qualitative" things but his record is not so great on the "quantitative" things. Or at least as great his followers claim.

His numbers just dont prove that he was so great on reducing illegal entry or on the economy. His campaign in 2016 and 2020 (and 2024) were based on this.

I am not saying he did a terrible job as president but I think it is a false story to claim that he was so great compared to Obama/Bush/Clinton, etc. (Of course, President Biden has set the bar so low that not hard to run against his tenure.)

Would Sec. Clinton have done better? Doubtful, but it is hard to prove a negative.

Federal hiring up during his term
Debt up during his term
Money supply up during his term
GDP down
Unemployment up
manufacturing jobs down
etc.

Were some of the above numbers affected by COVID? Of course. But........ a person is president for four years, and that includes the good AND bad times. You cannot pick cherries. Just like a sports team whose star player is injured and cannot play. "We would have won the championship if XXX was not injured." Well, he was, and we didnt.

I think that President Trumps greatest strength is that he can make you feel good, even more than the numbers really show.

I guess we will revisit in four years.

[Jolly]

Almost 75M votes. 312 Electoral College votes.

TG, you're screaming at trees in the wilderness. I don't know if all of your statistics are right or not. Most of the American public pays more attention to what they see and experience. They know what life was like under Trump and they know what life was like under Biden.

The contest has been waged and decided.

[jon-nyc]

You realize that’s a cop out, right? You make a claim, she proves you wrong with data. At least concede the point before changing the subject.

[Jolly]

There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

TG is great at digging out minutiae to support her position. But as an average voter, I reject her statistical attempt at equivalency. Numbers are only as good as how they are gathered and sometimes bear no relationship to what is actually occurring... The crime stats from the last few years being an example. Illegal border crossings being another. Even the job numbers are suspect, being buoyed by massive government hiring and constant downward revisions.

It's like Joe Scarborough's Road to Damascus moment, when he found out butter was $7/pound. Suddenly, the "everything is great" statistics were worth a warm bowl of spit.

[Jolly]

And I'll give you a statistic you may not care for...Donald J. Trump is President-elect and in January 2025 will become 47. The 47th President of the United States.

God Willing, you'll get to use the term "President Trump" for four years.

[George K]

@Axtremus said in Could Anything Have Been Done Different?:

@Jolly said in Could Anything Have Been Done Different?:

People don't tend to want to come to your country during an economic depression.

The economy under the Biden administration is GREAT, that’s why so many people want to come here under the Biden administration.

Just like that, the economy went from GREAT to terrible.

Fed up with the economy, Americans turn to Trump, giving him election sweep of swing states

It's a 60 minutes video with transcript.

[jon-nyc]

Recently I saw a graph that showed partisan views on how the economy is doing. There were huge swings in early 2017 and 2021. It’s dramatic and symmetrical.

[taiwan_girl]

I have no problem with President Trump becoming president. I did predict it. However, I do not think he (or VP Harris also) are the best choices for the country.

I just think there is a bit of TDS on President Trumps followers.

I know we have a lot of history people here. So, I have the following question:

What president had a "base" that adored him as much as the base of President Trump adores him?

Anyway, You have to have numbers to compare things. it is not fair to say, "yes, the numbers show illegal crossings were a bit higher under President Trump vs. President Obama. Even so, I feel that they were higher under President Obama." They werent. That is where I say that President Trump is a good cheerleader. He can increase your mental satisfaction even if things stay the same.

As I said before, regardless of who is president, the sun will come up, the stores will open, the stock market will go up, etc.

[Horace]

@jon-nyc said in Could Anything Have Been Done Different?:

You realize that’s a cop out, right? You make a claim, she proves you wrong with data. At least concede the point before changing the subject.

These sorts of criticisms should probably come from people with track records of conceding points when they are obviously wrong.

[jon-nyc]

You’re projecting again.

[Horace]

@jon-nyc said in Could Anything Have Been Done Different?:

You’re projecting again.

I'm sure you believe that. Gaslight yourself, then gaslight others. That's the process.

[Jolly]

@taiwan_girl said in Could Anything Have Been Done Different?:

Anyway, You have to have numbers to compare things.

No, you have to have good numbers to compare things. And when dealing with constantly shifting base parameters, you better have historical perspective when you're comparing numbers or you'll wind up comparing apples to kumquats.

It's been widely discussed that the number of illegals in the country are many more than the Biden Administration reported. Some say as many as twice as many. 🤯

What does that say about the validity of illegal immigrant number comparisons?

[taiwan_girl]

No one disputes (at least I dont) that illegal border entries are higher under President Biden.

My point was that President Trump campainged in 2016 that
he WILL decrease the illegal border crossings
he WILL improve the economy

He campaigned in 2020 that
he DID did decrease the illegal border crossings
he DID improve the economy

I showed numbers from the Customs and Border Organization that showed the number of illegal entries was more than under President Obama and the number of border patrol agents was about the same. I showed numbers on the economy that showed the improvement was marginal at best. (Yes, COVID did play a role, but again, who was president in 2020?)

If the counter argument is that because you dont like what the numbers are saying, they are wrong, I have no more melt point tables of ANSI 150 steel left. LOL

Still love you however. :couplekiss:

[Axtremus]

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/11/12/matt-davies-cartoon-election-recriminations-democrats/