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The New Coffee Room

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  3. California: No rockets because of political statements

California: No rockets because of political statements

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  • JollyJ Offline
    JollyJ Offline
    Jolly
    wrote on last edited by
    #3

    Tell Musk to come on down. There's a lot of real estate from Texas to the Florida panhandle where folks wouldn't mind a rocket or two.

    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

    1 Reply Last reply
    • George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #4

      The US Military uses SpaceX for most of its satellites - hence, Vandenberg AFB.

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • LuFins DadL Offline
        LuFins DadL Offline
        LuFins Dad
        wrote on last edited by
        #5

        Yeah, gonna walk that Disney comparison back a little. Disney doesn’t play a vital role in National Defense, and it seems that California isn’t inhibiting other companies. So it’s not removing an unfair competitive advantage, it’s actively punishing a company over its owner’s politics.

        The Brad

        HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
        • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

          Yeah, gonna walk that Disney comparison back a little. Disney doesn’t play a vital role in National Defense, and it seems that California isn’t inhibiting other companies. So it’s not removing an unfair competitive advantage, it’s actively punishing a company over its owner’s politics.

          HoraceH Online
          HoraceH Online
          Horace
          wrote on last edited by
          #6

          @LuFins-Dad said in California: No rockets because of political statements:

          Yeah, gonna walk that Disney comparison back a little. Disney doesn’t play a vital role in National Defense, and it seems that California isn’t inhibiting other companies. So it’s not removing an unfair competitive advantage, it’s actively punishing a company over its owner’s politics.

          Are you saying we're about to witness bald faced hypocrisy on the parts of those who hand wrung over DeSantis' treatment of Disney, as those same people either ignore or applaud this situation?

          Education is extremely important.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
            #7

            You’ve already witnessed it, Horace, just not where you want to see it. Who in this thread cheered DeSantis on for this and now is all butthurt when it happened to Elon?

            For the record this is obviously wrong, just like the Disney case.

            That coastal commission is pretty antidemocratic in nature. It seems like a convenient vehicle for the governor to make unpopular changes with plausible deniability. I have friends who fought them over motor vehicle access to the beaches near pismo.

            Only non-witches get due process.

            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
            HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

              You’ve already witnessed it, Horace, just not where you want to see it. Who in this thread cheered DeSantis on for this and now is all butthurt when it happened to Elon?

              For the record this is obviously wrong, just like the Disney case.

              That coastal commission is pretty antidemocratic in nature. It seems like a convenient vehicle for the governor to make unpopular changes with plausible deniability. I have friends who fought them over motor vehicle access to the beaches near pismo.

              HoraceH Online
              HoraceH Online
              Horace
              wrote on last edited by
              #8

              @jon-nyc said in California: No rockets because of political statements:

              You’ve already witnessed it, Horace, just not where you want to see it. Who in this thread cheered DeSantis on for this and now is all butthurt when it happened to Elon?

              For the record this is obviously wrong, just like the Disney case.

              That coastal commission is pretty antidemocratic in nature. It seems like a convenient vehicle for the governor to make unpopular changes with plausible deniability. I have friends who fought them over motor vehicle access to the beaches near pismo.

              There is no coherent principle stating that discretionary governmental relationships with private industry must be free from the political considerations of the electorate. People can actually have opinions about whether such discretionary relationships are entered into or disbanded, when it's their elected government on one side of the business relationship. They can have those opinions without violating any principle.

              Education is extremely important.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • George KG Offline
                George KG Offline
                George K
                wrote on last edited by
                #9

                I didn't follow the DeSantis Disney story too closely.

                Correct me if I'm wrong wrong, but wasn't that all about zoning and Disney getting perks that other businesses didn't get?

                California's case seems to be about mean tweets.

                "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                  #10

                  They managed to write a law that didn’t mention the word ‘Disney’, rather it specified specific criteria that, by happy coincidence, included Disney and no one else.

                  But deniability became implausible when the perps bragged that they punished Disney for their political speech.

                  Only non-witches get due process.

                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                  George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                  • George KG George K

                    I didn't follow the DeSantis Disney story too closely.

                    Correct me if I'm wrong wrong, but wasn't that all about zoning and Disney getting perks that other businesses didn't get?

                    California's case seems to be about mean tweets.

                    HoraceH Online
                    HoraceH Online
                    Horace
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #11

                    @George-K said in California: No rockets because of political statements:

                    I didn't follow the DeSantis Disney story too closely.

                    Correct me if I'm wrong wrong, but wasn't that all about zoning and Disney getting perks that other businesses didn't get?

                    California's case seems to be about mean tweets.

                    Disney got sweet heart deals for some regulations because they historically had such a tight relationship with the government. Those deals were discretionary and optional. The state was motivated to make those deals less sweet, as Disney played politics against the political interests of the people who voted the government in. A government of the people, by the people, and for the people, might be expected to do just that.

                    Education is extremely important.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #12

                      You realize that defense works just fine for the coastal commission I assume.

                      Only non-witches get due process.

                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                      HoraceH LuFins DadL 2 Replies Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                        You realize that defense works just fine for the coastal commission I assume.

                        HoraceH Online
                        HoraceH Online
                        Horace
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #13

                        @jon-nyc said in California: No rockets because of political statements:

                        You realize that defense works just fine for the coastal commission I assume.

                        Yes, I am an actually reasonable human being who understands the implications of his ideas.

                        I can also coherently think CA is being idiotic, without thinking they are violating a fanciful principle against political considerations in discretionary relationships with private industry.

                        Education is extremely important.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                          They managed to write a law that didn’t mention the word ‘Disney’, rather it specified specific criteria that, by happy coincidence, included Disney and no one else.

                          But deniability became implausible when the perps bragged that they punished Disney for their political speech.

                          George KG Offline
                          George KG Offline
                          George K
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #14

                          @jon-nyc said in California: No rockets because of political statements:

                          They managed to write a law that didn’t mention the word ‘Disney’, rather it specified specific criteria that, by happy coincidence, included Disney and no one else.

                          E Jean Carroll smiled.

                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ Offline
                            jon-nycJ Offline
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                            #15

                            Interesting. You were licking your chops waiting for the delicious hypocrisy to emerge, and when I pointed out that it already had and it’s all on your side, you suddenly define away hypocrisy as it relates to states punishing actors for their politics.

                            Only non-witches get due process.

                            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                            HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                              You realize that defense works just fine for the coastal commission I assume.

                              LuFins DadL Offline
                              LuFins DadL Offline
                              LuFins Dad
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #16

                              @jon-nyc said in California: No rockets because of political statements:

                              You realize that defense works just fine for the coastal commission I assume.

                              Not really. It did at first blush before I had my coffee. And I wouldn’t call any of the posters on here butthurt. I was more bemused than anything.

                              But this is interesting that California Coadtal Commission wants to go to war with a company that is vital to National Defense and is also one of the most critical parts of the Hurricane recovery efforts in the Blue Ridge over political disagreements.

                              The Brad

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                Interesting. You were licking your chops waiting for the delicious hypocrisy to emerge, and when I pointed out that it already had and it’s all on your side, you suddenly define away hypocrisy as it relates to states punishing actors for their politics.

                                HoraceH Online
                                HoraceH Online
                                Horace
                                wrote on last edited by Horace
                                #17

                                @jon-nyc said in California: No rockets because of political statements:

                                Interesting. You were licking your chops waiting for the delicious hypocrisy to emerge, and when I pointed out that it already had and it’s all on your side, you suddenly define away hypocrisy as it relates to states punishing actors for their politics.

                                First of all, I don't actually believe you would have come out against this, but for having been painted in the corner with your fanciful "principle" that doesn't actually exist, which you used back in the DeSantis/Disney discussions. But be that as it may, I see nobody else using generally applicable principle to argue one way or another. In order for someone to be hypocritical, you'd have to define which standards they are mixing and matching.

                                For instance, I enjoyed DeSantis' treatment of Disney, and I think CA's actions here against Musk are idiotic and anti-social. That doesn't make me a hypocrite, because I haven't invented a principle to give either of my opinions more rhetorical punch. That is what you did, and now you're having to live with that alleged principle.

                                Education is extremely important.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • HoraceH Online
                                  HoraceH Online
                                  Horace
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #18

                                  Without the sweetheart government money in the form of tax credits for EVs, Tesla would probably have gone bankrupt. The motivation for those deals was essentially political. Of course those weren't targeted specifically at Tesla EVs, but the effect was outsized for Tesla alone.

                                  Education is extremely important.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • jon-nycJ Offline
                                    jon-nycJ Offline
                                    jon-nyc
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #19

                                    The principle that the state shouldn’t punish entities for political speech predates me by a considerable amount of time.

                                    Only non-witches get due process.

                                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                    HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                      The principle that the state shouldn’t punish entities for political speech predates me by a considerable amount of time.

                                      HoraceH Online
                                      HoraceH Online
                                      Horace
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #20

                                      @jon-nyc said in California: No rockets because of political statements:

                                      The principle that the state shouldn’t punish entities for political speech predates me by a considerable amount of time.

                                      I understand you've fixated on your personal definition of "punish", but an adjustment to a discretionary sweetheart deal is not the sort of "punishment" meant to be outlawed by the first amendment.

                                      As an example that you've failed to grapple with before, imagine a vendor with a huge government contract in San Francisco, becomes extremely politically active, and was spending their profits to support a bunch of abhorrent right-wing causes, as far as the population of SF was concerned. Does the first amendment block SF from changing vendors? Obviously no, and obviously this defeats your principle.

                                      Education is extremely important.

                                      jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • LuFins DadL Offline
                                        LuFins DadL Offline
                                        LuFins Dad
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #21

                                        Do other companies launch in California? Boeing or such?

                                        The Brad

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • HoraceH Horace

                                          @jon-nyc said in California: No rockets because of political statements:

                                          The principle that the state shouldn’t punish entities for political speech predates me by a considerable amount of time.

                                          I understand you've fixated on your personal definition of "punish", but an adjustment to a discretionary sweetheart deal is not the sort of "punishment" meant to be outlawed by the first amendment.

                                          As an example that you've failed to grapple with before, imagine a vendor with a huge government contract in San Francisco, becomes extremely politically active, and was spending their profits to support a bunch of abhorrent right-wing causes, as far as the population of SF was concerned. Does the first amendment block SF from changing vendors? Obviously no, and obviously this defeats your principle.

                                          jon-nycJ Offline
                                          jon-nycJ Offline
                                          jon-nyc
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #22

                                          @Horace said in California: No rockets because of political statements:

                                          Does the first amendment block SF from changing vendors? Obviously no yes, since O’Hare Trucking vs Westlake (1996) and obviously this confirms your principle.

                                          Only non-witches get due process.

                                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
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