Woke is here to stay
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wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 13:56 last edited by
An example - homophobia as a topic vs a search term.
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wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 13:58 last edited by
@jon-nyc said in Woke is here to stay:
An example - homophobia as a topic vs a search term.
I'll tell you what, you choose a metric now, and if Trump wins, we'll revisit it in a couple years to see if your prediction of a spike in that measure has become reality.
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wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 14:02 last edited by
Just kidding, you'll be in a concentration camp if Trump wins, so we won't be able to settle that, unless the camp emissaries can bargain with Trump's fascist regime for internet access, provided to the sole victor in the pit fighting arenas. I expect you to win, and I expect you to use your prize of five minutes online time to settle this particular score on TNCR.
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wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 15:58 last edited by
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wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 16:22 last edited by
How about using equity?
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wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 16:43 last edited by
Different meanings. Equity stake.
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@jon-nyc said in Woke is here to stay:
An example - homophobia as a topic vs a search term.
I'll tell you what, you choose a metric now, and if Trump wins, we'll revisit it in a couple years to see if your prediction of a spike in that measure has become reality.
wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 16:44 last edited by jon-nyc 10 Nov 2024, 16:47@Horace. These probably all correlate pretty well. A resurgence of wokeness in the culture would probably be visible in most of these. Some can get goosed by world events independent of Trump or US politics. Eg ‘settler colonialism’ peaked in late 23.
Hopefully we will never know what a second Trump term would have brought.
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@Horace. These probably all correlate pretty well. A resurgence of wokeness in the culture would probably be visible in most of these. Some can get goosed by world events independent of Trump or US politics. Eg ‘settler colonialism’ peaked in late 23.
Hopefully we will never know what a second Trump term would have brought.
wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 17:08 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Woke is here to stay:
@Horace. These probably all correlate pretty well. A resurgence of wokeness in the culture would probably be visible in most of these.
I'll stand by my point that you'd have to provide a convincing argument that the quantity of "woke" terms in new writing isn't a good way to measure how entrenched the ideas are in the culture. Since the measures you presented tell a different story, one that more confirms your bias that Trump is the main catalyst of woke, we'd have to make some attempt at understanding why your story is different than the numbers presented in the piece I linked to. I don't expect that conversation here, I'm just noting that I'm happy with the metrics from the piece I linked to, assuming they are accurate, since they are transparently meaningful. Your google metrics are a black box to me, of unknown significance.
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wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 17:14 last edited by jon-nyc 10 Nov 2024, 17:16
Measuring words is a good way, but as I said before, there’s a difference between words produced by the general population and those of, say, Ivy League anthropology departments or the staff at Deadspin.
A detailed historical record of all social media posts would be ideal. Measuring word frequency which is objective, yet with a general audience rather than press or academic studies.
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Measuring words is a good way, but as I said before, there’s a difference between words produced by the general population and those of, say, Ivy League anthropology departments or the staff at Deadspin.
A detailed historical record of all social media posts would be ideal. Measuring word frequency which is objective, yet with a general audience rather than press or academic studies.
wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 17:17 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Woke is here to stay:
Measuring words is a good way, but as I said before, there’s a difference is words produced by the general population and those of, say, Ivy League anthropology departments or the staff at Deadspin.
A detailed historical record of all social media posts would be ideal. Measuring word frequency which is objective, yet with a general audience rather than press or academic studies.
of the three charts in the piece, only one is focused on academic papers. One is a from polls of what people believe about a certain woke idea, and one is about "print media" and its word frequencies.
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wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 17:19 last edited by
Again, print media and academics are their own subcultures.
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wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 17:24 last edited by
I have no doubt that a Trump election will make twitter and facebook and reddit explode with references to white supremacy. What that establishes is that many people are primed to make that specific complaint in response to a certain election result. These people will not have been on the fence about white supremacy before the election, then swayed towards it after. These are indoctrinated people who will or will not be motivated to complain publicly, based on the results of the election.
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wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 17:25 last edited by
So we are in complete agreement that a Trump election would bring on a surge in wokeness by your favored metric.
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So we are in complete agreement that a Trump election would bring on a surge in wokeness by your favored metric.
wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 17:26 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Woke is here to stay:
So we are in complete agreement that a Trump election would bring on a surge in wokeness by your favored metric.
None of the three charts cited in the original piece are about social media.
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wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 17:29 last edited by
Which is my problem with them. He’s not trying to measure the broader culture.
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wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 17:31 last edited by
If your point about Trump causing wokeness boils down to a claim that Trump being elected will cause people to complain about Trump being elected, and those complaints will often have a woke angle, then we are in complete agreement. I consider that a nearly meaningless point, but if you think it's meaningful then you can continue to run with it.
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wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 19:56 last edited by
No you’re straw manning my position again.
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wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 21:08 last edited by
@jon-nyc said in Woke is here to stay:
No you’re straw manning my position again.
Regardless of what your position may be in your own head, the measure you've chosen by which it can be proven, will actually prove nothing more than what I described. That people would complain about Trump on social media, often with woke language, if Trump were elected. Which, duh.
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wrote on 11 Oct 2024, 23:53 last edited by
It was actually the measurement you defended. I only made the point that you need to look at what ‘everybody’ says rather than just journalists and cultural anthropologists.
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wrote on 12 Oct 2024, 00:49 last edited by
The three different charts from three different sources of information in the original piece (polls, academia, and print media) are not "everything". Granted. Though I would argue that they are not focused on marginal sub-cultures, and that they cover quite a bit of the mainstream. I am not impressed by google trends as a better measure.
