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The New Coffee Room

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  3. FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail

FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail

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  • George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Assuming there are 128 million households, and half of them already have broadband, the money spent on getting broadband to the rest of them is $375 per household.

    Starlink at the Cheddarshack®

    Screenshot 2024-09-20 at 6.57.59 AM.png

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • JollyJ Offline
      JollyJ Offline
      Jolly
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      One of the few Biden initiatives I thought was a good idea and could support.

      Has Kamala-lama-ding-dong ever accomplished implementing any policy objective?

      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

      1 Reply Last reply
      • AxtremusA Offline
        AxtremusA Offline
        Axtremus
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Wait a bit for "the other side of the story" before judging.

        George KG 1 Reply Last reply
        • MikM Away
          MikM Away
          Mik
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Why? Promises were trumpeted as a fait accompli. It's perfectly fair to judge it a failure. We have two possible outcomes. Either it could have been done and they were incompetent, or it couldn't be and they are liars. Pick your poison.

          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

          1 Reply Last reply
          • taiwan_girlT Offline
            taiwan_girlT Offline
            taiwan_girl
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Hearing this from a friend of a friend (who is rural) that the main problem is the "last mile". He said there has been work to lay broadband cable along the main highway/roads, but the difficulty is going from that road to the individual houses.

            JollyJ MikM 2 Replies Last reply
            • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

              Hearing this from a friend of a friend (who is rural) that the main problem is the "last mile". He said there has been work to lay broadband cable along the main highway/roads, but the difficulty is going from that road to the individual houses.

              JollyJ Offline
              JollyJ Offline
              Jolly
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              @taiwan_girl said in FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail:

              Hearing this from a friend of a friend (who is rural) that the main problem is the "last mile". He said there has been work to lay broadband cable along the main highway/roads, but the difficulty is going from that road to the individual houses.

              This is a Yoda problem.

              Do, or do not. There is no try.

              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

              1 Reply Last reply
              • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                Hearing this from a friend of a friend (who is rural) that the main problem is the "last mile". He said there has been work to lay broadband cable along the main highway/roads, but the difficulty is going from that road to the individual houses.

                MikM Away
                MikM Away
                Mik
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                @taiwan_girl said in FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail:

                Hearing this from a friend of a friend (who is rural) that the main problem is the "last mile". He said there has been work to lay broadband cable along the main highway/roads, but the difficulty is going from that road to the individual houses.

                That's been a known issue forever. If Larry were here you could ask him.

                “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                1 Reply Last reply
                • AxtremusA Axtremus

                  Wait a bit for "the other side of the story" before judging.

                  George KG Offline
                  George KG Offline
                  George K
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  @Axtremus said in FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail:

                  Wait a bit for "the other side of the story" before judging.

                  They've had 3 ½ years to get the other side of this story out.

                  The FCC commissioner says it's a typical government cluster.

                  @taiwan_girl said:

                  the main problem is the "last mile"

                  Yes. There are, as I said in the original post, other solutions.

                  Just checked: Accordion to ChatGPT, 7% of US households do not have broadband. That's almost 9 million households.

                  The cost, so far, has been $4.6K PER HOUSEHOLD.

                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                  taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
                  • George KG George K

                    @Axtremus said in FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail:

                    Wait a bit for "the other side of the story" before judging.

                    They've had 3 ½ years to get the other side of this story out.

                    The FCC commissioner says it's a typical government cluster.

                    @taiwan_girl said:

                    the main problem is the "last mile"

                    Yes. There are, as I said in the original post, other solutions.

                    Just checked: Accordion to ChatGPT, 7% of US households do not have broadband. That's almost 9 million households.

                    The cost, so far, has been $4.6K PER HOUSEHOLD.

                    taiwan_girlT Offline
                    taiwan_girlT Offline
                    taiwan_girl
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @George-K said in FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail:

                    Accordion to ChatGPT, 7% of US households do not have broadband.

                    I would have thought it would be higher than that.

                    (No facts or research for saying that - just that the US is quite big with a lot of spread out houses and towns)

                    George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                    • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                      @George-K said in FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail:

                      Accordion to ChatGPT, 7% of US households do not have broadband.

                      I would have thought it would be higher than that.

                      (No facts or research for saying that - just that the US is quite big with a lot of spread out houses and towns)

                      George KG Offline
                      George KG Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      @taiwan_girl said in FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail:

                      (No facts or research for saying that - just that the US is quite big with a lot of spread out houses and towns)

                      If only there were a solution for that...

                      image.jpeg

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
                      • taiwan_girlT Offline
                        taiwan_girlT Offline
                        taiwan_girl
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        I don't think that StarLink has enough capacity. At least right now, I do not think it is the answer.

                        George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                        • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                          I don't think that StarLink has enough capacity. At least right now, I do not think it is the answer.

                          George KG Offline
                          George KG Offline
                          George K
                          wrote on last edited by George K
                          #12

                          @taiwan_girl said in FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail:

                          don't think that StarLink has enough capacity.

                          Possible.

                          Yet they offer internet access to countries like Brazil and others.

                          I would guess that adding 9 million accounts would be not that big of a deal. Especially in the US.

                          As an aside, when we had the Cheddarshack®, we only had dialup for a while. DSL was amazing (for the time. At the time, I looked at Hughes satellite internet connectivity. There were a couple of big problems.

                          First of all was cost - iirc, it was a couple of hundred a month, back in the late 1990s.

                          Secondly was latency. Hughes uses (used?) geostationary satellites. These are 23000 miles up. So, for you to click on a link, your signal would travel 23000 miles up, it would be acknowledged with another 23K miles. Then, the satellite would send a signal 23K miles down to the website, which would travel 23K miles back to the satellite. Then...

                          Well you get the picture. I just cited about 100,000 miles of signal travel. At the speed of light that's about half a second. Add all the other "cruft" of data, and you're looking at significant delays in loading web pages. Remember, I just calculated a simple "ping" for a signal. Add all the other data that's required, and it's slow, slow, slow.

                          SpaceX satellites are much lower - so that's not as much of an issue.

                          Regardless, the government has spent about $4000 per household for internet access and has connected not a single one. Not one.

                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                          taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
                          • George KG George K

                            @taiwan_girl said in FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail:

                            don't think that StarLink has enough capacity.

                            Possible.

                            Yet they offer internet access to countries like Brazil and others.

                            I would guess that adding 9 million accounts would be not that big of a deal. Especially in the US.

                            As an aside, when we had the Cheddarshack®, we only had dialup for a while. DSL was amazing (for the time. At the time, I looked at Hughes satellite internet connectivity. There were a couple of big problems.

                            First of all was cost - iirc, it was a couple of hundred a month, back in the late 1990s.

                            Secondly was latency. Hughes uses (used?) geostationary satellites. These are 23000 miles up. So, for you to click on a link, your signal would travel 23000 miles up, it would be acknowledged with another 23K miles. Then, the satellite would send a signal 23K miles down to the website, which would travel 23K miles back to the satellite. Then...

                            Well you get the picture. I just cited about 100,000 miles of signal travel. At the speed of light that's about half a second. Add all the other "cruft" of data, and you're looking at significant delays in loading web pages. Remember, I just calculated a simple "ping" for a signal. Add all the other data that's required, and it's slow, slow, slow.

                            SpaceX satellites are much lower - so that's not as much of an issue.

                            Regardless, the government has spent about $4000 per household for internet access and has connected not a single one. Not one.

                            taiwan_girlT Offline
                            taiwan_girlT Offline
                            taiwan_girl
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            @George-K said in FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail:

                            Possible.

                            Yet they offer internet access to countries like Brazil and others.

                            I think they have something like 2.5MM people around the world, and I think that 50-60% are in the US (so about 1.5MM). I think that part of the problem is that the satellites have to be positioned above the country they are used. So, adding more satellites above Brazil does not help the US.

                            But, your point is interesting (and a sad comment about efficiency) about not connecting anyone.

                            Has the money been spent or just allocated? If it has been spent, where does it go to?

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • kluursK Offline
                              kluursK Offline
                              kluurs
                              wrote on last edited by kluurs
                              #14

                              I was listening to a story on this recently. That last mile business is the problem. It is mind numbingly expensive to bring cable that last mile. If I remember correctly, bringing fiber optic cable out to rural areas can run $15,000 to over $40,000 per mile. Another issue I vaguely remember was some pushback from industry who likes to not have competition from government entities - subsidies are accepted - thank you! And lastly, there's the old politics thing - that if political party A wishes to give everyone magic beans, party B will do everything possible to oppose that.

                              Kind of like -- want high speed trains?? Move to China.

                              George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                              • kluursK kluurs

                                I was listening to a story on this recently. That last mile business is the problem. It is mind numbingly expensive to bring cable that last mile. If I remember correctly, bringing fiber optic cable out to rural areas can run $15,000 to over $40,000 per mile. Another issue I vaguely remember was some pushback from industry who likes to not have competition from government entities - subsidies are accepted - thank you! And lastly, there's the old politics thing - that if political party A wishes to give everyone magic beans, party B will do everything possible to oppose that.

                                Kind of like -- want high speed trains?? Move to China.

                                George KG Offline
                                George KG Offline
                                George K
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                @kluurs said in FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail:

                                If I remember correctly, bringing fiber optic cable out to rural areas can run $15,000 to over $40,000 per mile.

                                Wow, I don't doubt it, But I'm surprised at how big it is.

                                some pushback from industry who likes to not have competition from government entities

                                Heh. Ya think?

                                "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • George KG George K

                                  @taiwan_girl said in FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail:

                                  (No facts or research for saying that - just that the US is quite big with a lot of spread out houses and towns)

                                  If only there were a solution for that...

                                  image.jpeg

                                  AxtremusA Offline
                                  AxtremusA Offline
                                  Axtremus
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  @George-K said in FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail:

                                  If only there were a solution for that...

                                  Having a technological solution is one thing.
                                  Having a scalable solution is another.
                                  Having an affordable solution is yet another.
                                  Having a quickly implementable solution is another still.

                                  We have more technological solutions for building walls than we do for connecting people to broadband. And you saw what happened to the last administration's aspiration to build a wall.

                                  Last I looked, the FCC just came up with accountability and reporting rules about using the funds for expanding rural broadband access, and that was around the middle of this year. Give it another year and you'll see reports rolling in that tell you where, how much, and on what the money is spent.

                                  George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • AxtremusA Axtremus

                                    @George-K said in FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail:

                                    If only there were a solution for that...

                                    Having a technological solution is one thing.
                                    Having a scalable solution is another.
                                    Having an affordable solution is yet another.
                                    Having a quickly implementable solution is another still.

                                    We have more technological solutions for building walls than we do for connecting people to broadband. And you saw what happened to the last administration's aspiration to build a wall.

                                    Last I looked, the FCC just came up with accountability and reporting rules about using the funds for expanding rural broadband access, and that was around the middle of this year. Give it another year and you'll see reports rolling in that tell you where, how much, and on what the money is spent.

                                    George KG Offline
                                    George KG Offline
                                    George K
                                    wrote on last edited by George K
                                    #17

                                    @Axtremus said in FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail:

                                    Having a technological solution is one thing.

                                    Starlink exists

                                    Having a scalable solution is another.

                                    It covers the entire United States

                                    Having an affordable solution is yet another.

                                    It's about $400 to install (see above)

                                    Having a quickly implementable solution is another still.

                                    UPS/FEDEX etc can usually deliver in a matter of days.

                                    We have more technological solutions for building walls than we do for connecting people to broadband. And you saw what happened to the last administration's aspiration to build a wall.

                                    Not for lack of technology. Perhaps you can let the Lithuanians, Israelis, Indians, Saudis, Hungarians, Spaniards, Norwegians, Koreans, and Greeks know that building walls is a futile adventure.

                                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • JollyJ Offline
                                      JollyJ Offline
                                      Jolly
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      You know, we keep talking about Starlink. We're forgetting cell towers and cell phones, which cover a huge swath of the rural U.S.

                                      What about 5G on the rural route?

                                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                      George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • JollyJ Jolly

                                        You know, we keep talking about Starlink. We're forgetting cell towers and cell phones, which cover a huge swath of the rural U.S.

                                        What about 5G on the rural route?

                                        George KG Offline
                                        George KG Offline
                                        George K
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        @Jolly said in FCC Chairman - another Czar-fail:

                                        What about 5G on the rural route?

                                        As of 4 years ago, any cellular connectivity in the far reaches of the plains was non-existent. Montana, in particular was horrible. I doubt it's much better now.

                                        Long stretches of northern North Dakota where's there's nothing as well.

                                        5G is great, if you can get it. In my house, right now, I have 2 out 4 bars. I'm 0.57 mile from a tower, and my condo faces the tower. If you want speed, 5G is your answer. If you want distance, 4G LTE is the solution.

                                        Screenshot 2024-09-21 at 4.23.40 PM.png

                                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • JollyJ Offline
                                          JollyJ Offline
                                          Jolly
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          Ok, real world 100Mbps speed for 4G. Doesn't that meet broadband definition?

                                          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                          JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
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