Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT
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@Jolly said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Personal attacks by candidate:
Harris - 46%
Trump - 29%Who'd a thunk that one?
I’m having trouble making sense of those percentages. Were the moderators responsible for the remaining 25% of personal attacks?
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@Jolly said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
They "fact checked" Trump five times
Thanks for the Fact Check of the Fast Checkers being Fast Checked!
Seriously, I think it was each candidate's job to do the call outs. Or - post debate, the pundits can try and thoughtfully do that - though the audience will still recognize that there will be some bias in what is picked out as a misrepresentation of fact. With a debate, it opens a door to what is happening now - the sense that they did not do an even handed use of fact checking. AND- it wouldn't be possible in a debate to do instant review without interrupting the debate.
It's not to say that truth doesn't matter - but it was Kamala's or Trump's job to call them out. IF this were an interview, the interviewer can challenge the veracity of the statement - and should do that. This was not an interview.
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I did not watch nor did not listen to the debate. I have only read the transcript.
From that, it is obvious that neither candidate really answered the questions asked nor did they provide any real substance details on what they will do.
An example
When VP Harris was asked specifically about immigration:
So I'm the only person on this stage who has prosecuted transnational criminal organizations for the trafficking of guns, drugs, and human beings. And let me say that the United States Congress, including some of the most conservative members of the United States Senate, came up with a border security bill which I supported. And that bill would have put 1,500 more border agents on the border to help those folks who are working there right now over time trying to do their job. It would have allowed us to stem the flow of fentanyl coming into the United States. I know there are so many families watching tonight who have been personally affected by the surge of fentanyl in our country. That bill would have put more resources to allow us to prosecute transnational criminal organizations for trafficking in guns, drugs and human beings. But you know what happened to that bill? Donald Trump got on the phone, called up some folks in Congress, and said kill the bill. And you know why? Because he preferred to run on a problem instead of fixing a problem. And understand, this comes at a time where the people of our country actually need a leader who engages in solutions, who actually addresses the problems at hand. But what we have in the former president is someone who would prefer to run on a problem instead of fixing a problem. And I'll tell you something, he's going to talk about immigration a lot tonight even when it's not the subject that is being raised. And I'm going to actually do something really unusual and I'm going to invite you to attend one of Donald Trump's rallies because it's a really interesting thing to watch. You will see during the course of his rallies he talks about fictional characters like Hannibal Lecter. He will talk about windmills cause cancer. And what you will also notice is that people start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom. And I will tell you the one thing you will not hear him talk about is you. You will not hear him talk about your needs, your dreams, and your, your desires. And I'll tell you, I believe you deserve a president who actually puts you first. And I pledge to you that I will.
What????!!!!
Same for President Trump on abortion and his changing stance.
Avoid the question and just go back to your "talk points".
I dont think that this debate will change anyone's mind. If you were for Trump before the debate, you think he did well and won. If you were for VP Harris, same thing.
For those in the middle, not enough positives or negatives from either side to make you decide.
Probably Taylor Swift did more than any of the candidates to help or hurt them.
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@taiwan_girl said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Probably Taylor Swift did more than any of the candidates to help or hurt them.
I'm waiting to hear who Sonny Rollins endorses before I don't vote.
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On transcript, yes. If you just listened, yes. But the facial characteristics? She came across as a bitch. That’s the word I’ve heard to describe her twice this morning, including an immigrant neighbor that can’t vote.
And maybe it’s misogyny at play, but it’s a lot harder for a woman to overcome the “bitch” persona than it is for a guy to get past the “fvcking @sshole” personality type.
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It’s fun to think what an own-goal Trump’s pet-eating rant was. It seems to have been invented in the last 24 hours with Vance a prime booster.
Oh - and the casual lie here about all the calls his office is getting.
I meant your pet goes missing and you suspect foul play. Who do you call? The cops? Or your Senator’s office?
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@jon-nyc said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
I meant your pet goes missing and you suspect foul play. Who do you call? The cops? Or your Senator’s office?
LOL
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If you think it's migrants doing it, and immigration is a huge hotbutton political issue, and your senator happens to be the VP nominee, then yes it's plausible to call his office. It's also plausible that the calls are an orchestrated effort by partisans to invent a politically advantageous rumor. In either case, actual phone calls can occur. It's not obvious that Vance is lying about the calls.
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One interesting observation I heard about the debate is that kamala is not hitting the "existential threat" note nearly to the extent of Biden. Obviously this decision comes from polling or focus groups. America is over that piece of gaslighting, by and large. Anybody still all-in on it betrays that their tribal programming has outlived its usefulness.
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That observation was made from the beginning of her campaign in July. Given that she had more or less the same staff as Biden did, you have to figure that that was the best card they could play with the limited hand that was Joe Biden, whereas they had more cards available with Harris.
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Re the calls, of course I can’t prove what calls his office did t receive. But by all accounts the cat-eating meme only started in the last 48 hours. The parsimonious explanation is that he wanted to boost it and needed a pretext to bring it up other than ‘racist trolls on Gab invented this story. run with it’.
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Her talking points were mostly bait to piss Trump off ("your rallies are boring"). It worked, but the debate just became fodder for each respective base. Nothing was learned, very few minds were probably changed. I think this will be a non-event in the overall race.
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@jon-nyc said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Re the calls, of course I can’t prove what calls his office did t receive. But by all accounts the cat-eating meme only started in the last 48 hours. The parsimonious explanation is that he wanted to boost it and needed a pretext to bring it up other than ‘racist trolls on Gab invented this story. run with it’.
The public accusations go back to June. At least regarding the ducks and geese in the park.
At any rate, the importance of the rumors is not really whether pets are being barbecues, it’s what is driving it. People in small towns that are seeing their neighborhoods and towns being overwhelmed with undocumented aliens. Major cities are being overwhelmed by proportionally much smaller numbers. These small cities and towns in blue collar areas are being devastated. I’ve mentioned Charleroi, a town of 4200 that now has an additional 2000 Haitians in it. That entire town voted for Trump in 2020 55%-45%. Right now it’s looking like 90-10. And while it’s a small town in Western PA, it’s surrounded by larger towns that are well aware of what’s happening in Charleroi and avoiding it like the plague, and blaming the immigration policies. There’s 100000 residents of the Mon Valley… Then there’s the communities surrounding the Valley. If 40K votes went the other way in 2020, Trump wins PA. He likely picks up 20K of those votes in the Mon Valley. York, PA is having the same problem, as is Raubville. I’m afraid that our Border Czar will have some difficulties in Pennsylvania.
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@jon-nyc said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Re the calls, of course I can’t prove what calls his office did t receive. But by all accounts the cat-eating meme only started in the last 48 hours. The parsimonious explanation is that he wanted to boost it and needed a pretext to bring it up other than ‘racist trolls on Gab invented this story. run with it’.
Your own account admits that if a hoaxer or set of hoaxers called his office, it would give Vance's story more credibility than you're willing to give it. That's a lot of political power in the hands of a potential hoaxer, to expect them to forego it just because, what, they're above that sort of behavior? Your assuredness that Vance is lying, is unearned.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
@jon-nyc said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Re the calls, of course I can’t prove what calls his office did t receive. But by all accounts the cat-eating meme only started in the last 48 hours. The parsimonious explanation is that he wanted to boost it and needed a pretext to bring it up other than ‘racist trolls on Gab invented this story. run with it’.
The public accusations go back to June. At least regarding the ducks and geese in the park.
At any rate, the importance of the rumors is not really whether pets are being barbecues, it’s what is driving it. People in small towns that are seeing their neighborhoods and towns being overwhelmed with undocumented aliens. Major cities are being overwhelmed by proportionally much smaller numbers. These small cities and towns in blue collar areas are being devastated. I’ve mentioned Charleroi, a town of 4200 that now has an additional 2000 Haitians in it. That entire town voted for Trump in 2020 55%-45%. Right now it’s looking like 90-10. And while it’s a small town in Western PA, it’s surrounded by larger towns that are well aware of what’s happening in Charleroi and avoiding it like the plague, and blaming the immigration policies. There’s 100000 residents of the Mon Valley… Then there’s the communities surrounding the Valley. If 40K votes went the other way in 2020, Trump wins PA. He likely picks up 20K of those votes in the Mon Valley. York, PA is having the same problem, as is Raubville. I’m afraid that our Border Czar will have some difficulties in Pennsylvania.
There is quite a wikipedia article on the pet eating hoax already.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield,_Ohio_cat-eating_hoax
At the time of the 2020 census, Springfield, Ohio, had a population of 58,662. Between 15,000–20,000 Haitian migrants came to Springfield since then.[15] While the migrants have had a positive economic impact on the city, the rapid population expansion strained public resources.[16][12]
I wonder how they establish that the migrants have had a positive economic impact? The cites are paywalled.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
The public accusations go back to June. At least regarding the ducks and geese in the park.
I’m talking pets, which are almost certainly false. ‘Eating wild ducks’ doesn’t sound quite as scary. I’ll bet some of us have done so.
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Again, the real story is what is driving the accusations in these towns, and dismissing it as racism or xenophobia will ultimately bite you in the ass
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@Horace said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Your own account admits that if a hoaxer or set of hoaxers called his office, it would give Vance's story more credibility than you're willing to give it. That's a lot of political power in the hands of a potential hoaxer, to expect them to forego it just because, what, they're above that sort of behavior?
If they want him to boost their meme just make it useful to him politically and get it in front of him online. Seems a lot more efficient than calling an intern in Columbus to tell him your cat is missing and hoping the story makes it to the boss.
DON’T let them eat cake.
- RFK Jr
