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The New Coffee Room

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  3. No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals

No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals

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  • J Offline
    J Offline
    Jolly
    wrote on 30 Aug 2024, 17:55 last edited by
    #15

    Not avoiding. You just aren't getting the answer you want.

    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

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    • J Online
      J Online
      jon-nyc
      wrote on 30 Aug 2024, 17:57 last edited by
      #16

      You mean the answer to my question?

      Thank you for your attention to this matter.

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      • R Offline
        R Offline
        Renauda
        wrote on 30 Aug 2024, 18:00 last edited by Renauda
        #17

        I doubt very much that I, as a foreign citizen and non resident of the US, can walk into a Wal-Mart or gun shop in most, if not all, US states and jurisdictions and buy a firearm.

        Elbows up!

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        • J Offline
          J Offline
          Jolly
          wrote on 30 Aug 2024, 18:04 last edited by
          #18

          I think you know the answer to your question.

          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

          J 1 Reply Last reply 30 Aug 2024, 18:36
          • J jon-nyc
            30 Aug 2024, 17:53

            Jolly is perfectly capable of avoiding his own questions.

            H Offline
            H Offline
            Horace
            wrote on 30 Aug 2024, 18:16 last edited by
            #19

            @jon-nyc said in No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals:

            Jolly is perfectly capable of avoiding his own questions.

            You haven't answered the question either. And, you should know that whether something is "constitutional" is not always cut and dried. The cutting and drying occurs in arguments before the court.

            As Jack Smith will attest to, one does not ask permission from the Supreme Court to do something, one just does it, and then allows SCOTUS to provide guidance about what is or is not constitutional. Any conceit you may have that your question has a definitive answer, would have to be justified.

            Education is extremely important.

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            • J Online
              J Online
              jon-nyc
              wrote on 30 Aug 2024, 18:31 last edited by
              #20

              The question had to do with Jolly’s thoughts about what is constitutional or not, not what SCOTUS might say.

              Thank you for your attention to this matter.

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              • J Jolly
                30 Aug 2024, 18:04

                I think you know the answer to your question.

                J Online
                J Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on 30 Aug 2024, 18:36 last edited by jon-nyc
                #21

                @Jolly said in No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals:

                I think you know the answer to your question.

                If you don’t think the constitution doesn’t apply to them than it would follow that such laws would be constitutional. I just wanted to see if you’d say it out loud.

                Thank you for your attention to this matter.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • J jon-nyc
                  30 Aug 2024, 13:38

                  @Jolly said in No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals:

                  Note that the court made a distinction between legal and illegal aliens.

                  Personally, I think an illegal alien does not have any rights under the Constitution.

                  Can they be enslaved?

                  Can they be imprisoned indefinitely without charges or access to a lawyer?

                  C Offline
                  C Offline
                  Copper
                  wrote on 30 Aug 2024, 19:33 last edited by
                  #22

                  @jon-nyc said in No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals:

                  Can they be enslaved?

                  I thought that was the whole point.

                  J 1 Reply Last reply 30 Aug 2024, 21:40
                  • C Copper
                    30 Aug 2024, 19:33

                    @jon-nyc said in No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals:

                    Can they be enslaved?

                    I thought that was the whole point.

                    J Offline
                    J Offline
                    Jolly
                    wrote on 30 Aug 2024, 21:40 last edited by
                    #23

                    @Copper said in No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals:

                    @jon-nyc said in No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals:

                    Can they be enslaved?

                    I thought that was the whole point.

                    That was his point, as Jon goes for the "gotcha".

                    IMO, the Constitution and Bill of Rights apply to citizens and legal immigrants. It does not apply to people in the country illegally. Now, Jon will cite precedent, but I think much of that precedent is wrong, especially since much of it was generated when the U.S. did not have millions pouring across the border. Illegal aliens are subject to immigration courts and as such, the Executive has more power in those courts than in the regular court system.

                    Which brings up another interesting point...The Constitution's 13th Amendment still allows for involuntary servitude or slavery as punishment for a crime. So yes, since illegals are criminals we can send them to the cane fields against their will.

                    So, there is the answer that Jon knew when he asked the question.

                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                    A 1 Reply Last reply 30 Aug 2024, 22:13
                    • J Jolly
                      30 Aug 2024, 21:40

                      @Copper said in No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals:

                      @jon-nyc said in No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals:

                      Can they be enslaved?

                      I thought that was the whole point.

                      That was his point, as Jon goes for the "gotcha".

                      IMO, the Constitution and Bill of Rights apply to citizens and legal immigrants. It does not apply to people in the country illegally. Now, Jon will cite precedent, but I think much of that precedent is wrong, especially since much of it was generated when the U.S. did not have millions pouring across the border. Illegal aliens are subject to immigration courts and as such, the Executive has more power in those courts than in the regular court system.

                      Which brings up another interesting point...The Constitution's 13th Amendment still allows for involuntary servitude or slavery as punishment for a crime. So yes, since illegals are criminals we can send them to the cane fields against their will.

                      So, there is the answer that Jon knew when he asked the question.

                      A Offline
                      A Offline
                      Axtremus
                      wrote on 30 Aug 2024, 22:13 last edited by
                      #24

                      @Jolly wrote:

                      The Constitution's 13th Amendment still allows for involuntary servitude or slavery as punishment for a crime.

                      Couple that with "show me the man, and I will show you the crime" and anyone can be enslaved.

                      J 1 Reply Last reply 30 Aug 2024, 22:36
                      • A Axtremus
                        30 Aug 2024, 22:13

                        @Jolly wrote:

                        The Constitution's 13th Amendment still allows for involuntary servitude or slavery as punishment for a crime.

                        Couple that with "show me the man, and I will show you the crime" and anyone can be enslaved.

                        J Offline
                        J Offline
                        Jolly
                        wrote on 30 Aug 2024, 22:36 last edited by
                        #25

                        @Axtremus said in No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals:

                        @Jolly wrote:

                        The Constitution's 13th Amendment still allows for involuntary servitude or slavery as punishment for a crime.

                        Couple that with "show me the man, and I will show you the crime" and anyone can be enslaved.

                        If you want to go there. Which is a nice reason for a fair justice system.

                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

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