Nurse Practitioners
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@Jolly said in Nurse Practitioners:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Nurse Practitioners:
@George-K said in Nurse Practitioners:
@Mik said in Nurse Practitioners:
Lord.
Read the reddit thread for more stories.
I don't know why we're getting on nurses in this thread. Roughly half of all the doctors I've ever had to deal with have been absolute dipshits. There's nothing special about nurses that make them especially susceptible to dipshittery.
It's not nurses per se. It's the encroachment of nurses into where they have no business, even with additional training. I know some very good nurses. I even know some pretty decent NP's and PA's. But they're NOT doctors. They don't have the education, the training or the experience.
Not to say there are not bad physicians. Anybody with a passing knowledge of the medical system knows that.
Yeah, that's all fair.
But in a lot of situations, despite the lack of education, training and experience, I'd gladly take a good nurse over a crap doctor.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Nurse Practitioners:
@Jolly said in Nurse Practitioners:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Nurse Practitioners:
@George-K said in Nurse Practitioners:
@Mik said in Nurse Practitioners:
Lord.
Read the reddit thread for more stories.
I don't know why we're getting on nurses in this thread. Roughly half of all the doctors I've ever had to deal with have been absolute dipshits. There's nothing special about nurses that make them especially susceptible to dipshittery.
It's not nurses per se. It's the encroachment of nurses into where they have no business, even with additional training. I know some very good nurses. I even know some pretty decent NP's and PA's. But they're NOT doctors. They don't have the education, the training or the experience.
Not to say there are not bad physicians. Anybody with a passing knowledge of the medical system knows that.
Yeah, that's all fair.
But in a lot of situations, despite the lack of education, training and experience, I'd gladly take a good nurse over a crap doctor.
It really depends an awful lot on the exact situation and the definitions of good and crap. If I go into the ER with an asthma attack, I trust the good nurse will know as well or better than the crap doctor how much epinephrine or adrenaline to give me, and a truly bad doc may decide to test something else
At the same time, if I’m stranded in a natural disaster and need an appendectomy and I’m trapped there with a Solid C surgeon that barely passed and the world’s greatest nurse, I’m going to ask the surgeon to handle the cutting.
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arguments from anecdote about foolish diagnoses are obviously self-defeating if you're going to hold up MDs as a group not susceptible to such lines of attack. What I am willing to believe is that MDs are on average smarter than nurses and more comprehensively educated and more widely experienced, which will surely come out in the results. But as with all overlapping distributions, it would not be difficult to find a particular nurse who is more competent than a particular doctor.
Education is extremely important.
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arguments from anecdote about foolish diagnoses are obviously self-defeating if you're going to hold up MDs as a group not susceptible to such lines of attack. What I am willing to believe is that MDs are on average smarter than nurses and more comprehensively educated and more widely experienced, which will surely come out in the results. But as with all overlapping distributions, it would not be difficult to find a particular nurse who is more competent than a particular doctor.
@Horace said in Nurse Practitioners:
What I am willing to believe is that MDs are on average smarter than nurses
It's a darn good average.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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arguments from anecdote about foolish diagnoses are obviously self-defeating if you're going to hold up MDs as a group not susceptible to such lines of attack. What I am willing to believe is that MDs are on average smarter than nurses and more comprehensively educated and more widely experienced, which will surely come out in the results. But as with all overlapping distributions, it would not be difficult to find a particular nurse who is more competent than a particular doctor.
@Horace said in Nurse Practitioners:
What I am willing to believe is that MDs are on average smarter than nurses
Say, are you willing to believe that college/university graduates are on average smarter than those who have never graduated college/university? Are you willing to believe that those with graduate degrees are on average smarter than those without?
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@Horace said in Nurse Practitioners:
What I am willing to believe is that MDs are on average smarter than nurses
Say, are you willing to believe that college/university graduates are on average smarter than those who have never graduated college/university? Are you willing to believe that those with graduate degrees are on average smarter than those without?
@Axtremus said in Nurse Practitioners:
@Horace said in Nurse Practitioners:
What I am willing to believe is that MDs are on average smarter than nurses
Say, are you willing to believe that college/university graduates are on average smarter than those who have never graduated college/university? Are you willing to believe that those with graduate degrees are on average smarter than those without?
A. Yes
B. No -
@Horace said in Nurse Practitioners:
What I am willing to believe is that MDs are on average smarter than nurses
Say, are you willing to believe that college/university graduates are on average smarter than those who have never graduated college/university? Are you willing to believe that those with graduate degrees are on average smarter than those without?
@Axtremus said in Nurse Practitioners:
@Horace said in Nurse Practitioners:
What I am willing to believe is that MDs are on average smarter than nurses
Say, are you willing to believe that college/university graduates are on average smarter than those who have never graduated college/university? Are you willing to believe that those with graduate degrees are on average smarter than those without?
Nope.
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@Horace said in Nurse Practitioners:
What I am willing to believe is that MDs are on average smarter than nurses
It's a darn good average.
@Jolly said in Nurse Practitioners:
@Horace said in Nurse Practitioners:
What I am willing to believe is that MDs are on average smarter than nurses
It's a darn good average.
Smart is the baseline requirement, not the mark of a good doctor. Or nurse.
Plenty of high-IQ docs running around who are absolute dipshits when it comes to patient care.
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@Jolly said in Nurse Practitioners:
@Horace said in Nurse Practitioners:
What I am willing to believe is that MDs are on average smarter than nurses
It's a darn good average.
Smart is the baseline requirement, not the mark of a good doctor. Or nurse.
Plenty of high-IQ docs running around who are absolute dipshits when it comes to patient care.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Nurse Practitioners:
@Jolly said in Nurse Practitioners:
@Horace said in Nurse Practitioners:
What I am willing to believe is that MDs are on average smarter than nurses
It's a darn good average.
Smart is the baseline requirement, not the mark of a good doctor. Or nurse.
Plenty of high-IQ docs running around who are absolute dipshits when it comes to patient care.
We were a teaching hospital. Not a big hospital as things go, but pretty busy. Thirty or more Tulane residents, some on 90 day rotations, some on six months, but all changed out July 1. That doesn't count staff, of course. ED, Pathology, Anesthesiology, Radiology, Cardiology, Pulmonology were 100% staff. All other departments had one or two staff, one senior resident and the rest were HO's of varying years.
Had 300 or so nurses, but we had RN nursing students from two different universities and LPNs from two vo-techs. Ancillary-wise, we had students doing clinicals in lab, radiology, respiratory and pharmacy.
I've seen a shipload of white coats come and go. And I've seen a few dumbass docs. I've got a few stories, even. But no...NPs, RNs (even PhD level), PAs...They're not physician level. They're just not.
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@Horace said in Nurse Practitioners:
What I am willing to believe is that MDs are on average smarter than nurses
Say, are you willing to believe that college/university graduates are on average smarter than those who have never graduated college/university? Are you willing to believe that those with graduate degrees are on average smarter than those without?
@Axtremus said in Nurse Practitioners:
@Horace said in Nurse Practitioners:
What I am willing to believe is that MDs are on average smarter than nurses
Say, are you willing to believe that college/university graduates are on average smarter than those who have never graduated college/university? Are you willing to believe that those with graduate degrees are on average smarter than those without?
This would come out in any statistical review with any reasonable definition of intelligence. If one goes with IQ, it's established. Though certain areas of study are much more well correlated than others. Now that more people are going to college, and you almost can't be too stupid to get certain degrees, the correlation will be weaker.
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Who are we kidding, AI is better than all of them. But they do still need human hands to administer the treatments.
For now.
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I don't much care about bedside manner, as long as they get their diagnoses and treatments right. If you want to take EQ, then it should first be established how that affects outcomes.
@Horace said in Nurse Practitioners:
If you want to take EQ, then it should first be established how that affects outcomes.
That's pretty well-established. If you misinterpret what your patient is telling you because you spent a decade memorizing anatomy at the expense of your social skills, you're going to have a hard time with diagnosis.
I'm not saying that anatomy is less important than the social skills. I'm saying that the former is a baseline requirement, and you better have at least a workable version of the latter if it's your job to treat people. Otherwise, go find a research lab.
