As a pro-lifer I am good with this…

[Doctor Phibes]

@LuFins-Dad said in As a pro-lifer I am good with this…:

The problem is that the pro-life crowd has not done anything to foster a society that values motherhood and children.

All the pro-life crowd talk about is abortion, not actual life. And it has to be said a lot of the lives they're so intent on saving are born into some pretty sad situations.

Edit - I see Aqua beat me to it

[Mik]

@Jolly said in As a pro-lifer I am good with this…:

I think Trump is trying to find a point where he can at least swing some women independents. It's realpolitik.

Because if he's not elected, your guy (assuming you're voting for Mr. Biden), is abortion on demand until delivery and in Virginia, maybe after.

No, I'm not wild about the 16-week compromise. But the unelected do not make policy.

It's arguably the most pragmatic position the guy has taken.

[Jolly]

@Doctor-Phibes said in As a pro-lifer I am good with this…:

@LuFins-Dad said in As a pro-lifer I am good with this…:

The problem is that the pro-life crowd has not done anything to foster a society that values motherhood and children.

All the pro-life crowd talk about is abortion, not actual life. And it has to be said a lot of the lives they're so intent on saving are born into some pretty sad situations.

Edit - I see Aqua beat me to it

Depends on where you get your information.

I was listening to Dave Ramsey today...He was talking about finances and wealth accumulation in light of the story of the young rich ruler. But within his explanation, he was talking about how Christians who have accumulated wealth are mandated to use a significant portion of their money for good.

He referenced a group of fifteen Christians, who recently banded together, rented a helicopter, hired some former Navy SEALs and rescued 15 Haitian children being held by one of the Haitian gangs. He didn't go into what happened after a successful rescue attempt, but he did comment on how good things done by religious people do not make the news.

My church participates in a local group of churches of all denominations, that funds a pregnancy center. They not only support mothers during their pregnancy, they help provide diapers, formula, baby food, clothes and a few toys for babies and young children. We aren't unique, there are groups like that all over the country. Not funded by government, you'll rarely hear anything about such groups.

There are good things that happen everyday, all over the country, but they don't fit the narrative...

[Copper]

@Doctor-Phibes said in As a pro-lifer I am good with this…:

All the pro-life crowd talk about is abortion, not actual life. And it has to be said a lot of the lives they're so intent on saving are born into some pretty sad situations.

Well then, kill them before they are born and solve the problem.

No more poverty, no more post natal problems, done.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Jolly said in As a pro-lifer I am good with this…:

Depends on where you get your information.

I was listening to Dave Ramsey today...He was talking about finances and wealth accumulation in light of the story of the young rich ruler. But within his explanation, he was talking about how Christians who have accumulated wealth are mandated to use a significant portion of their money for good.

He referenced a group of fifteen Christians, who recently banded together, rented a helicopter, hired some former Navy SEALs and rescued 15 Haitian children being held by one of the Haitian gangs. He didn't go into what happened after a successful rescue attempt, but he did comment on how good things done by religious people do not make the news.

My church participates in a local group of churches of all denominations, that funds a pregnancy center. They not only support mothers during their pregnancy, they help provide diapers, formula, baby food, clothes and a few toys for babies and young children. We aren't unique, there are groups like that all over the country. Not funded by government, you'll rarely hear anything about such groups.

There are good things that happen everyday, all over the country, but they don't fit the narrative...

For my comment, I wasn't talking about organized philanthropy. I was talking about how others are treated outside of one's own cultural bubble, wanting to do right by the environment (and no I don't mean "environmentalism"), etc. Quite a few of them aren't exactly "live and let live" kinds of folks.

[Axtremus]

Credit where credit is due, this is Chris Christie talking about “pro-life for the whole life“ :

Link to video

I rememer him saying more or less the same thing back when he was running in the 2016 election cycle.

[taiwan_girl]

https://www.npr.org/2024/06/05/nx-s1-4994407/supreme-court-mifepristone

The U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday tossed out a challenge to the FDA’s rules for prescribing and dispensing abortion pills.

By a unanimous vote, the court said the anti-abortion doctors who brought the challenge had failed to show they had been harmed, as they do not prescribe the medication, and thus, essentially, had no skin in the game.

The court said that the challengers, a group called the Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine, had no right to be in court at all since neither the organization nor its members could show they had suffered any concrete injury.

[George K]

So, SCOTUS didn't really say that mifepristone is OK to use. They basically ruled that the people and organizations who brought the suit have no standing, since there was no harm caused to them.

The justices decided the plaintiffs, a group of anti-abortion doctors and activists, did not have a legal right to sue.

But they left the door open to other attempts to limit the availability of the drug.

[Jolly]

Limited availability is coming, I think.

Been reading some horror stories of the drug being used past its intended window of use and what happens to many women psychologically when they abort a formed fetus at home.

[taiwan_girl]

@George-K said in As a pro-lifer I am good with this…:

So, SCOTUS didn't really say that mifepristone is OK to use. They basically ruled that the people and organizations who brought the suit have no standing, since there was no harm caused to them.

The justices decided the plaintiffs, a group of anti-abortion doctors and activists, did not have a legal right to sue.

But they left the door open to other attempts to limit the availability of the drug.

That seems to be the ruling in a lot of Supreme Court cases. They rule very "narrow"

[George K]

@taiwan_girl said in As a pro-lifer I am good with this…:

That seems to be the ruling in a lot of Supreme Court cases. They rule very "narrow"

Couple of observations on that:

1. Many (most?) of the lawsuits brought by Trump after the 2020 election were dismissed on lack of standing or another non-dispositive ground.

2. As @jolly pointed out in the "Bumpstock" thread, if the government wants to ban bumpstocks, they should pass a law banning bumpstocks. It is within Congress's remit, and I doubt SCOTUS would even look at it.

3. The thinking goes, also, do Dobbs. SCOTUS didn't take away any so-called "right to abortion." If Congress wants to encode the right of a woman to an abortion, the let them do it. It becomes law of the land, and we're done.

[taiwan_girl]

@George-K said in As a pro-lifer I am good with this…:

As @jolly pointed out in the "Bumpstock" thread, if the government wants to ban bumpstocks, they should pass a law banning bumpstocks. It is within Congress's remit, and I doubt SCOTUS would even look at it.

Hmm. I disagree a bit with this. If Congress did pass something like that, I am almost 100% sure that someone will sue that it is unconstitutional and eventually, it will go up to the Supreme Court.

As for #1 above, there was nothing to stop President Trump (and others) from re-filing having the correct person file, etc. Not having done so is a "red flag" on the quality of the evidence.

[George K]

@taiwan_girl said in As a pro-lifer I am good with this…:

If Congress did pass something like that, I am almost 100% sure that someone will sue that it is unconstitutional and eventually, it will go up to the Supreme Court.

Agreed. That's the purpose of finding out whether a law is constitutional or not. Make it a law, not a regulation. It's illegal (for most people) to own an automatic weapon. It's the law, and I have no problem with it.

This was a regulation by an agency. There's a difference.

[Jolly]

@George-K said in As a pro-lifer I am good with this…:

It's illegal (for most people) to own an automatic weapon.

Not quite.

https://oig.justice.gov/reports/ATF/e0706/back.htm#:~:text=On June 26%2C 1934%2C Congress,criminals during the Prohibition Era.

Wanna buy a submachine gun? You need to find a Class III dealer. Be warned, since BATF quit letting new receivers be imported, prices went through the roof.. I've seen Thompsons with matching numbers go for $30k and up.

1. Select your firearm: Start by choosing the Class 3 weapon that you're interested in purchasing. This could be anything from a machine gun, suppressor, or short-barrelled rifle, to other types of NFA regulated devices. Keep in mind that different states have varied regulations regarding these devices, and it's crucial to ensure that your desired firearm complies with your state's laws.
2. Complete the Form 4 with your dealer: Form 4, or the Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of Firearm, is a necessary document when purchasing a Class 3 weapon. This form should be filled out with the help of your firearms dealer, who will assist in providing pertinent information regarding the device you're buying.
3. Acquire necessary photos and fingerprints: You must have a set of passport-sized photos and fingerprint cards to include with your application. These are used for identification purposes and are part of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) background check process.
4. Submission of documents: After gathering all necessary documentation, including your completed Form 4, photographs, and fingerprints, send it to the ATF for processing.
5. Waiting period: The approval process for purchasing a Class 3 weapon typically takes several months. During this time, the ATF performs extensive background checks.
6. Collection of the device: Once the ATF approves your application, you can then pick up your Class 3 firearm from the dealer. The timing of this can vary based on several factors, including the type of firearm and your location.

[George K]

@Jolly intersting.

However, to my point, are these steps codified into law, or are they regulatory by BATF?

[Jolly]

Those are the rules that BATF has that conforms to who can own a Class III weapon as defined by the 1934 Firearms Act.

[Jolly]

@Jolly said in As a pro-lifer I am good with this…:

Those are the rules that BATF has that conforms to who can own a Class III weapon as defined by the 1934 Firearms Act.

Bump stocks are not covered. It's a simple process if they want to enact further law, however.

[Mik]

Laziness reigns. Just like there is a proper way to change the Constitution IF you have consensus AND are willing to do the work involved. But they won't.

[taiwan_girl]

@Jolly said in As a pro-lifer I am good with this…:

Bump stocks are not covered

Did bump stocks exist in 1934?

Revolvers did not exist in the time the constitution was written, so should they not be included in the "bear arms" section of the #2 Amendment?

[George K]

@taiwan_girl said in As a pro-lifer I am good with this…:

(Disclaimer - the number of firearms I own is less than one)

Did bump stocks exist in 1934?

Probably not.

Revolvers did not exist in the time the constitution was written, so should they not be included in the "bear arms" section of the #2 Amendment?

Again, probably not. But that's not the point.

The point, as I see it, is what is the LAW. The law allows citizens to own firearms. That's been determined by SCOTUS. But, that's as far as it goes.

"Firearms" can include anything from muskets, to rifles, to BARs to 50-cals...to RPGs.

It's the job of Congress to define which are, and which are not available to the citizenry. Once again, Congress has failed to step up and legislate, allowing this BS to rise to the level of SCOTUS.

Make a law, test its constitutionality, and go on. Rely on legislation, not regulation.