Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...
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@Jolly said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
Question: Should public universities in the South waive out-of-state tuition for prospective students, after making sure that in-state students have first priority?
We've found that some out-of-state colleges will offer a reduction in tuition that coincidentally brings the fee down to the in-state cost, presumably based on the fact that they want that person to attend. Is that what you mean?
@Doctor-Phibes said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
@Jolly said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
Question: Should public universities in the South waive out-of-state tuition for prospective students, after making sure that in-state students have first priority?
We've found that some out-of-state colleges will offer a reduction in tuition that coincidentally brings the fee down to the in-state cost, presumably based on the fact that they want that person to attend. Is that what you mean?
Yep.
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Our daughter got that from an out of state college. It's pretty common. It also depends on the student. I have no issue with it
@Mik said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
Our daughter got that from an out of state college. It's pretty common. It also depends on the student. I have no issue with it
Usually, it's for academic superiority or for a desired talent.
I'm proposing that we consider all out-of-state applicants for in-state tuition on a competitive basis.
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No
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@Jolly said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
@LuFins-Dad said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
No
Expound, please...
It’s pretty simple. I have been paying Virginia taxes for ~ 20 years. Will likely be paying for another 20 years. A portion of that money goes to the state schools. At least part of that is made up by my son getting a reduced in-state tuition. Now why on earth would I want somebody from NJ, whose family hasn’t invested into the system, to get the same tuition? What is the actual benefit to the state? It’s far less likely that an out of state student will choose to make their permanent residence there. They will be far more likely to settle elsewhere.
Now, I can see some benefit to the school, but that’s not really my concern. If the school likes an out of state student enough, then put together a nice scholarship package.
The Brad
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We moved States just as the kids are going to college, and they both want to study in Massachusetts. Quite annoying, as we'd lived there for 20 years, but we seem to be getting a decent deal for my son at the State school of choice, whereas my daughter is going somewhere private where it costs the same horrifying amount either way.
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We moved States just as the kids are going to college, and they both want to study in Massachusetts. Quite annoying, as we'd lived there for 20 years, but we seem to be getting a decent deal for my son at the State school of choice, whereas my daughter is going somewhere private where it costs the same horrifying amount either way.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
both want to study in Massachusetts.
Send them to Virginia, LuFins has already covered most of the cost for you, so tuition is much cheaper.
Tuition in Massachusetts schools seems to be much higher for some reason.
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The most annoying college we applied for asked the question 'Are you a US Citizen?', and when he said 'No' (he's a permanent resident and has lived here since he was 2), they asked us to provide declarations from a bank that we could pay the fees, and also proof that he could speak English. We sent our credit report and his High School graduation as proof, and they wouldn't accept either, so we politely declined to continue the process. I can't stand jobsworths.
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@Jolly said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
@LuFins-Dad said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
No
Expound, please...
It’s pretty simple. I have been paying Virginia taxes for ~ 20 years. Will likely be paying for another 20 years. A portion of that money goes to the state schools. At least part of that is made up by my son getting a reduced in-state tuition. Now why on earth would I want somebody from NJ, whose family hasn’t invested into the system, to get the same tuition? What is the actual benefit to the state? It’s far less likely that an out of state student will choose to make their permanent residence there. They will be far more likely to settle elsewhere.
Now, I can see some benefit to the school, but that’s not really my concern. If the school likes an out of state student enough, then put together a nice scholarship package.
@LuFins-Dad said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
@Jolly said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
@LuFins-Dad said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
No
Expound, please...
It’s pretty simple. I have been paying Virginia taxes for ~ 20 years. Will likely be paying for another 20 years. A portion of that money goes to the state schools. At least part of that is made up by my son getting a reduced in-state tuition. Now why on earth would I want somebody from NJ, whose family hasn’t invested into the system, to get the same tuition? What is the actual benefit to the state? It’s far less likely that an out of state student will choose to make their permanent residence there. They will be far more likely to settle elsewhere.
Now, I can see some benefit to the school, but that’s not really my concern. If the school likes an out of state student enough, then put together a nice scholarship package.
You don't have to give them a scholarship, just wave the out-of-state tuition. At what some places charge, they'll think they're getting by cheap!
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@LuFins-Dad said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
@Jolly said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
@LuFins-Dad said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
No
Expound, please...
It’s pretty simple. I have been paying Virginia taxes for ~ 20 years. Will likely be paying for another 20 years. A portion of that money goes to the state schools. At least part of that is made up by my son getting a reduced in-state tuition. Now why on earth would I want somebody from NJ, whose family hasn’t invested into the system, to get the same tuition? What is the actual benefit to the state? It’s far less likely that an out of state student will choose to make their permanent residence there. They will be far more likely to settle elsewhere.
Now, I can see some benefit to the school, but that’s not really my concern. If the school likes an out of state student enough, then put together a nice scholarship package.
You don't have to give them a scholarship, just wave the out-of-state tuition. At what some places charge, they'll think they're getting by cheap!
@Jolly said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
@LuFins-Dad said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
@Jolly said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
@LuFins-Dad said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
No
Expound, please...
It’s pretty simple. I have been paying Virginia taxes for ~ 20 years. Will likely be paying for another 20 years. A portion of that money goes to the state schools. At least part of that is made up by my son getting a reduced in-state tuition. Now why on earth would I want somebody from NJ, whose family hasn’t invested into the system, to get the same tuition? What is the actual benefit to the state? It’s far less likely that an out of state student will choose to make their permanent residence there. They will be far more likely to settle elsewhere.
Now, I can see some benefit to the school, but that’s not really my concern. If the school likes an out of state student enough, then put together a nice scholarship package.
You don't have to give them a scholarship, just wave the out-of-state tuition. At what some places charge, they'll think they're getting by cheap!
Waiving the out of state tuition is a slap in the face to your actual in state students and their families. An out of state student being given grants by the school that would equate giving in state tuition is more palatable.
The in-state tuition is an agreement made between the school and the state. Offering that to any out of state student is a breach of that agreement and that trust. Just give them a scholarship and avoid the hassles.
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@Jolly said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
@LuFins-Dad said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
@Jolly said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
@LuFins-Dad said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
No
Expound, please...
It’s pretty simple. I have been paying Virginia taxes for ~ 20 years. Will likely be paying for another 20 years. A portion of that money goes to the state schools. At least part of that is made up by my son getting a reduced in-state tuition. Now why on earth would I want somebody from NJ, whose family hasn’t invested into the system, to get the same tuition? What is the actual benefit to the state? It’s far less likely that an out of state student will choose to make their permanent residence there. They will be far more likely to settle elsewhere.
Now, I can see some benefit to the school, but that’s not really my concern. If the school likes an out of state student enough, then put together a nice scholarship package.
You don't have to give them a scholarship, just wave the out-of-state tuition. At what some places charge, they'll think they're getting by cheap!
Waiving the out of state tuition is a slap in the face to your actual in state students and their families. An out of state student being given grants by the school that would equate giving in state tuition is more palatable.
The in-state tuition is an agreement made between the school and the state. Offering that to any out of state student is a breach of that agreement and that trust. Just give them a scholarship and avoid the hassles.
@LuFins-Dad said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
[1] Waiving the out of state tuition is a slap in the face to your actual in state students and their families. An out of state student being given grants by the school that would equate giving in state tuition is more palatable.
The in-state tuition is an agreement made between the school and the state. Offering that to any out of state student is a breach of that agreement and that trust. [2] Just give them a scholarship and avoid the hassles.
The two ways of doing this are financially equivalent, yet one hits a nerve while the other is considered palatable. I suppose that's human nature for 'ya.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
[1] Waiving the out of state tuition is a slap in the face to your actual in state students and their families. An out of state student being given grants by the school that would equate giving in state tuition is more palatable.
The in-state tuition is an agreement made between the school and the state. Offering that to any out of state student is a breach of that agreement and that trust. [2] Just give them a scholarship and avoid the hassles.
The two ways of doing this are financially equivalent, yet one hits a nerve while the other is considered palatable. I suppose that's human nature for 'ya.
@Axtremus said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
@LuFins-Dad said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
[1] Waiving the out of state tuition is a slap in the face to your actual in state students and their families. An out of state student being given grants by the school that would equate giving in state tuition is more palatable.
The in-state tuition is an agreement made between the school and the state. Offering that to any out of state student is a breach of that agreement and that trust. [2] Just give them a scholarship and avoid the hassles.
The two ways of doing this are financially equivalent, yet one hits a nerve while the other is considered palatable. I suppose that's human nature for 'ya.
Not equivalent at all. Words have meaning.
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Financially equivalent.
Emotionally not equivalent (at least not for you, @LuFins-Dad). -
Financially equivalent.
Emotionally not equivalent (at least not for you, @LuFins-Dad).@Axtremus said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
Financially equivalent.
Emotionally not equivalent (at least not for you, @LuFins-Dad).They aren’t financially equivalent, either. There are tax implications, for one. Second, being able to show that you were a grant or scholarship recipient can have a positive impact on graduate school or job applications. Finally, a scholarship or grant can add a level of scholastic accountability and responsibility to that student. Just giving them a lower tuition rate does not.
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@Axtremus said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
Financially equivalent.
Emotionally not equivalent (at least not for you, @LuFins-Dad).They aren’t financially equivalent, either. There are tax implications, for one. Second, being able to show that you were a grant or scholarship recipient can have a positive impact on graduate school or job applications. Finally, a scholarship or grant can add a level of scholastic accountability and responsibility to that student. Just giving them a lower tuition rate does not.
@LuFins-Dad said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
@Axtremus said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
Financially equivalent.
Emotionally not equivalent (at least not for you, @LuFins-Dad).They aren’t financially equivalent, either. There are tax implications, for one.
Would love to learn more about these "tax implications" if you care to elaborate. I am under the impression that, at least for federal taxes, the calculation is based on how much you actually pay out of pocket, rather than whether you get a smaller bill to begin with or your bill was reduced by grants or scholarship.
Second, being able to show that you were a grant or scholarship recipient can have a positive impact on graduate school or job applications.
Does not appear to me employers and graduate school admission offices are so gullible as to believe that somehow merit based "grant" is better or worse than merit based "reduction of tuition." But I will be happy to reassess if you provide statistically significant data to show otherwise. :man-shrugging:
Finally, a scholarship or grant can add a level of scholastic accountability and responsibility to that student. Just giving them a lower tuition rate does not.
Again, it's simple enough to formulate the rules such that eligibility to maintain "tuition reduction" uses the same standard as eligibility to maintain "grants." But I will be happy to reassess if you provide statistically significant data to show otherwise. :man-shrugging:
All that said, I am in favor of simply using the "grant" approach/terminology because the accounting mechanism is already there and the idea/terminology is commonly understood.
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The main lack of equivalency I see is the fact that the state government subsidizes the school to allow in-state tuition to be lower.
So the school would actually be getting less revenue for the out of state students if they had the same out-of-pocket cost.
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The main lack of equivalency I see is the fact that the state government subsidizes the school to allow in-state tuition to be lower.
So the school would actually be getting less revenue for the out of state students if they had the same out-of-pocket cost.
@jon-nyc said in Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin...:
So the school would actually be getting less revenue for the out of state students if they had the same out-of-pocket cost.
But you'd be getting students that might not attend, otherwise.
Economy of scale, especially in internet classes?
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Most universities are running at capacity already. You aren’t adding on more students.
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LSU Freshman class is 7500 students. They received 38,000 applications. They are at capacity. Economy of scale doesn’t play a part.
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Now, if you want to compete for some particularly bright engineering students, which sounds more appealing. “You can attend for a discounted rate of $12K tuition plus room and board”, or “We will give you a $16K per year scholarship!”
