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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains

Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains

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  • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

    @Doctor-Phibes said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

    @Jolly said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

    Don't equate morality and wealth. It doesn't work. Not for individuals or for society.

    It doesn't work for taxation either. That was my admittedly rather snarky point.

    As far as taxing the rich more being unjust. Says who?

    Want to tax rich people more? Fine. Higher rates? Okay. I’ll argue the effectiveness of it. I’ll debate the purposes of it. I won’t debate the morality of it.

    From now on, the speed limit is 45MPH if your net gross assets is greater than $10 Million.

    Is that moral or ethical?

    Doctor PhibesD Offline
    Doctor PhibesD Offline
    Doctor Phibes
    wrote on last edited by
    #29

    @LuFins-Dad said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

    @Doctor-Phibes said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

    @Jolly said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

    Don't equate morality and wealth. It doesn't work. Not for individuals or for society.

    It doesn't work for taxation either. That was my admittedly rather snarky point.

    As far as taxing the rich more being unjust. Says who?

    Want to tax rich people more? Fine. Higher rates? Okay. I’ll argue the effectiveness of it. I’ll debate the purposes of it. I won’t debate the morality of it.

    You are the one who introduced morality into the discussion in the first place.

    I was only joking

    LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
    • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

      @LuFins-Dad said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

      @Doctor-Phibes said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

      @Jolly said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

      Don't equate morality and wealth. It doesn't work. Not for individuals or for society.

      It doesn't work for taxation either. That was my admittedly rather snarky point.

      As far as taxing the rich more being unjust. Says who?

      Want to tax rich people more? Fine. Higher rates? Okay. I’ll argue the effectiveness of it. I’ll debate the purposes of it. I won’t debate the morality of it.

      You are the one who introduced morality into the discussion in the first place.

      LuFins DadL Offline
      LuFins DadL Offline
      LuFins Dad
      wrote on last edited by
      #30

      @Doctor-Phibes said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

      @LuFins-Dad said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

      @Doctor-Phibes said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

      @Jolly said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

      Don't equate morality and wealth. It doesn't work. Not for individuals or for society.

      It doesn't work for taxation either. That was my admittedly rather snarky point.

      As far as taxing the rich more being unjust. Says who?

      Want to tax rich people more? Fine. Higher rates? Okay. I’ll argue the effectiveness of it. I’ll debate the purposes of it. I won’t debate the morality of it.

      You are the one who introduced morality into the discussion in the first place.

      Ah, my that’s what happens when a 4 year old interrupts your posting. I didn’t finish the thought.

      I meant that I won’t debate the morality of higher income tax rates for those with higher income. That’s not what this is. This is specifically targeting and creating a tax for a very small group of people based on the fact that you think they have too much. That’s immoral.

      The Brad

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      • AxtremusA Offline
        AxtremusA Offline
        Axtremus
        wrote on last edited by Axtremus
        #31

        "It's time to tax the billionaires."

        https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/03/opinion/global-billionaires-tax.html?unlocked_article_code=1.p00.Pl0g.cqKpg2h-oWcK

        IMG_6624.PNG

        The chart shows how the "effective tax rate" has changed since the 1960 for the 400 richest Americans compared to those earning below the median.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • George KG Offline
          George KG Offline
          George K
          wrote on last edited by George K
          #32

          How much revenue will this generate?

          ETA: Oh, I thought Biden told us that billionaires paid only 8% tax. Does the New York Times (finally) say that Biden lied (again)?

          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

          AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
          • George KG George K

            How much revenue will this generate?

            ETA: Oh, I thought Biden told us that billionaires paid only 8% tax. Does the New York Times (finally) say that Biden lied (again)?

            AxtremusA Offline
            AxtremusA Offline
            Axtremus
            wrote on last edited by
            #33

            @George-K said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

            ETA: Oh, I thought Biden told us that billionaires paid only 8% tax. Does the New York Times (finally) say that Biden lied (again)?

            Biden may be talking only about federal income tax, while The NY Times includes all federal, state, and local taxes.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • George KG Offline
              George KG Offline
              George K
              wrote on last edited by George K
              #34

              @George-K said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

              @Axtremus said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:
              Biden may be talking only about federal income tax, while The NY Times includes all federal, state, and local taxes.

              So, it has nothing to do with Biden's proposal

              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • AxtremusA Offline
                AxtremusA Offline
                Axtremus
                wrote on last edited by
                #35

                Context - the NY Times graphics show that in historical context, the richest of the rich have been paying taxes at lower and lower effective rates; one can take this and argue that imposing more/higher taxes on this population is just reverting to historical norms rather than something new and/or unorthodox.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • George KG Offline
                  George KG Offline
                  George K
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #36

                  Again, you've not answered my question: How much revenue will it raise? If we're serious about raising revenue (and we're not), this is probably less than a small drop in the bucket.

                  It's election-year pandering.

                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                  Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                  • AxtremusA Offline
                    AxtremusA Offline
                    Axtremus
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #37

                    See https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2024/04/president-bidens-budget-calls-for-raising-43-trillion-in-revenues-over-ten-years-heres-how

                    • Impose a minimum income tax on the wealthy: $503 billion. Currently, the federal government only imposes taxes on income, which includes wages, pass-through income from businesses, and gains from the sale of property; unrealized capital gains are not considered income under the present tax code. Applicable only to taxpayers with wealth greater than $100 million, the proposal would impose a minimum tax equal to 25 percent of a taxpayer’s taxable income and unrealized capital gains less the sum of their regular tax. The minimum tax payments would be treated as prepayments to be credited against future realized gains.

                    Not called out in the article linked in the opening post, per Biden's proposal, the tax paid on unrealized gains will be credited against future realized gains -- so things will eventually even out, you just cannot avoid paying for a long time by not selling for a long time.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • George KG George K

                      Again, you've not answered my question: How much revenue will it raise? If we're serious about raising revenue (and we're not), this is probably less than a small drop in the bucket.

                      It's election-year pandering.

                      Doctor PhibesD Offline
                      Doctor PhibesD Offline
                      Doctor Phibes
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #38

                      @George-K said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

                      It's election-year pandering.

                      Populism - giving people what they want instead of what they need.

                      I was only joking

                      George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                      • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                        @George-K said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

                        It's election-year pandering.

                        Populism - giving people what they want instead of what they need.

                        George KG Offline
                        George KG Offline
                        George K
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #39

                        @Doctor-Phibes said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

                        @George-K said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:
                        It's election-year pandering.

                        Populism - giving people what they want instead of what they need.

                        Actually, it's worse than that. The only thing that people are being "given" in this case is the satisfaction that some wealthy dudes are paying more taxes.

                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • MikM Offline
                          MikM Offline
                          Mik
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #40

                          Sooner or later, you run out of... oh, never mind.

                          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

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