Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains

[Mik]

But the problem is that if your stock goes up you’d have to sell off stock to get the money to pay the taxes, assuming like most people you don’t have huge cash reserves. That assures declining stock prices around April 15. It will be counter productive.

[taiwan_girl]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

this tax would only affect individual taxpayers with over $100 million in net assets

This is about 10,000 people in the US.

10000/330,000,000 * 100 = 0.002% of the population. I am with @Doctor-Phibes on this one.

[LuFins Dad]

@taiwan_girl said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

this tax would only affect individual taxpayers with over $100 million in net assets

This is about 10,000 people in the US.

10000/330,000,000 * 100 = 0.002% of the population. I am with @Doctor-Phibes on this one.

So it’s okay since it doesn’t affect you? That always works so well.

[taiwan_girl]

@LuFins-Dad said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

@taiwan_girl said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

this tax would only affect individual taxpayers with over $100 million in net assets

This is about 10,000 people in the US.

10000/330,000,000 * 100 = 0.002% of the population. I am with @Doctor-Phibes on this one.

So it’s okay since it doesn’t affect you? That always works so well.

But the converse is trying to make laws such that every 0.002% segment of the population is happy doesn't work either.

[LuFins Dad]

@taiwan_girl said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

@LuFins-Dad said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

@taiwan_girl said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

this tax would only affect individual taxpayers with over $100 million in net assets

This is about 10,000 people in the US.

10000/330,000,000 * 100 = 0.002% of the population. I am with @Doctor-Phibes on this one.

So it’s okay since it doesn’t affect you? That always works so well.

But the converse is trying to make laws such that every 0.002% segment of the population is happy doesn't work either.
It’s not about making people happy or unhappy. It’s about equality under the law. Taxing unrealized gains on some people and not on others? That’s immoral, unjust, and definitely unequal treatment under the law.

[taiwan_girl]

@LuFins-Dad I understand what you are saying, but in the US, tax laws are rarely (maybe never) the same for everybody.

Make USD $10K/year - pay X% in taxes.
Make USD $100K/year - X+% in taxes.

Own a home and have a mortgage - get a tax break on mortgage interest
Dont own a home or already pay off your home - no tax break

etc.

In a perfect world, everybody would be subject to the same tax rules. But it doesn't happen.

[Mik]

@LuFins-Dad said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

@taiwan_girl said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

@LuFins-Dad said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

@taiwan_girl said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

this tax would only affect individual taxpayers with over $100 million in net assets

This is about 10,000 people in the US.

10000/330,000,000 * 100 = 0.002% of the population. I am with @Doctor-Phibes on this one.

So it’s okay since it doesn’t affect you? That always works so well.

But the converse is trying to make laws such that every 0.002% segment of the population is happy doesn't work either.
It’s not about making people happy or unhappy. It’s about equality under the law. Taxing unrealized gains on some people and not on others? That’s immoral, unjust, and definitely unequal treatment under the law.

Exactly.

[Mik]

@taiwan_girl said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

@LuFins-Dad I understand what you are saying, but in the US, tax laws are rarely (maybe never) the same for everybody.

Make USD $10K/year - pay X% in taxes.
Make USD $100K/year - X+% in taxes.

Own a home and have a mortgage - get a tax break on mortgage interest
Dont own a home or already pay off your home - no tax break

etc.

In a perfect world, everybody would be subject to the same tax rules. But it doesn't happen.

Everyone is subject to taxes on income. Unrealized gains are not income until you sell the asset.

[Jolly]

Either flat tax or a VAT and call it a day.

[George K]

@Jolly said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

Either flat tax or a VAT and call it a day.

[Doctor Phibes]

@LuFins-Dad said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

That’s immoral, unjust, and definitely unequal treatment under the law.

If we're going to start basing everything on morality, people making 100's of millions whilst others struggle to make ends meet can be considered immoral and unjust too, depending of course on your own particular world-view. As far as the rich getting unequal treatment under the law? Yes, that's almost certainly true. Generally they do much better.

It's an imperfect world. Very rich people giving me their money would make it slightly less imperfect.

[Jolly]

Don't equate morality and wealth. It doesn't work. Not for individuals or for society.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Jolly said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

Don't equate morality and wealth. It doesn't work. Not for individuals or for society.

It doesn't work for taxation either. That was my admittedly rather snarky point.

As far as taxing the rich more being unjust. Says who?

[Jolly]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

@Jolly said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

Don't equate morality and wealth. It doesn't work. Not for individuals or for society.

It doesn't work for taxation either. That was my admittedly rather snarky point.

As far as taxing the rich more being unjust. Says who?

I do. Progressive tax systems are inherently immoral.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Jolly said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

I do. Progressive tax systems are inherently immoral.

So, I can't equate morality and wealth, but you can equate, albeit indirectly?

I believe that a flat tax rate would be immoral. The less money you make, the higher proportion of your total earnings you are required to spend on essentials such as food and shelter. So taking the same amount from somebody who has little or none to spare is not 'fair' or 'equitable' or 'moral'.

[Jolly]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

@Jolly said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

I do. Progressive tax systems are inherently immoral.

So, I can't equate morality and wealth, but you can equate, albeit indirectly?

I believe that a flat tax rate would be immoral. The less money you make, the higher proportion of your total earnings you are required to spend on essentials such as food and shelter. So taking the same amount from somebody who has little or none to spare is not 'fair' or 'equitable' or 'moral'.

Just because one is not making much money in a capitalistic economy is no reason to stay at that economic level. I want the person who longs to do better to know that for every extra dime he makes, he'll keep nine cents of it (at least at the Federal level).

That's inherently fair.

If 10% is good enough for God, it ought to be good enough for Uncle Sam.

[LuFins Dad]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

@Jolly said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

Don't equate morality and wealth. It doesn't work. Not for individuals or for society.

It doesn't work for taxation either. That was my admittedly rather snarky point.

As far as taxing the rich more being unjust. Says who?

Want to tax rich people more? Fine. Higher rates? Okay. I’ll argue the effectiveness of it. I’ll debate the purposes of it. I won’t debate the morality of it.

From now on, the speed limit is 45MPH if your net gross assets is greater than $10 Million.

Is that moral or ethical?

[LuFins Dad]

Now, you want to place limits on CEO compensation as stock? No problem.

[taiwan_girl]

@Mik said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

@taiwan_girl said in Biden proposes tax on unrealized gains:

@LuFins-Dad I understand what you are saying, but in the US, tax laws are rarely (maybe never) the same for everybody.

Make USD $10K/year - pay X% in taxes.
Make USD $100K/year - X+% in taxes.

Own a home and have a mortgage - get a tax break on mortgage interest
Dont own a home or already pay off your home - no tax break

etc.

In a perfect world, everybody would be subject to the same tax rules. But it doesn't happen.

Everyone is subject to taxes on income. Unrealized gains are not income until you sell the asset.

I am not saying the proposed law is fair.
I am not saying that I agree with it.

(For the little information I know (only from above) I dont agree and I dont think it is fair.)

HOwever, like @Doctor-Phibes , I have difficulty getting too outrage about something that affects 0.002% of the population, and that 0002% have more money than alot of countries. These people are so so far out of my economy league that I have no comprehension of them.

Sure, the new law may cause some of them to cut back on the hours of their upstairs maid in their 5th vacation home, but all reality, it wont have much impact on their lives.

I wish I were rich enough to worry about this, but unfortunately no. LOL

My brain only has so many things I can get outrage about and this one isnt one of them.

[Renauda]

Words like “immoral” and “fair” are meaningless buzz words when discussing taxes.