"I dismissed a medical student."

[George K]

@George-K said in "I dismissed a medical student.":

https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/1cgylml/advice_needed_dismissed_a_medical_student_from_my/?share_id=XMn2U8xnBKcl79Io8yjWd&utm_content=1&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=4

Interesting comments:

This was the mistake. If your angle was "we don't do any politics here because it could alienate our patients" you'd be rock solid. But you went with "I don't support this political stance" which was a political statement in itself. You lost the easy high ground and now you have to justify it.

What happens when it is time for evaluations? Is the attending allowed to take this event into account when submitting their evaluation of the student? And regardless of your answer, I assure you that the student will feel that any poor or mediocre evaluation was some type of retaliation, regardless of whether that is true.

The die is cast, and some things can't be walked back and made pretend they never happened.

I have a sincere question for the folks saying politics doesn't belong in the clinic: is wearing a little pride pin on my badge "political" and therefore inappropriate in your view?

I find the sentiment of "keep politics out of xyz" appealing, but as someone pointed out below, who gets to decide what is and isn't considered political?

This is fundamentally an impossible ask, because even determining what is political is, itself, a political judgment. Is a BLM pin political? A pride scarf? An American flag sticker on your badge?

I’m not saying any of these are or aren’t appropriate clinical attire. Not taking a stance on the slogan OP mentioned either. But I do think it’s important to recognize that when we say “X is political and you should keep it out of the clinic/hospital,” that judgment is, itself, bringing politics into the workplace

B.A. Poli Sci before PharmD, here. Your argument is an oldie but goodie: that there is no definition of political, aside from who holds the power at that moment to define it. Your professors should be proud.

It’s a rude awakening graduating to the workplace, with different mechanisms of power behind decisions. Academic vs. professional spheres, if you will: you will come to see, young Padawan, that many personalities can exist in one but not the other.

This professional sphere requires humbling oneself to be trainable. The student in question here is still operating in the undergraduate academic mindset that questioning power elevates her status among her peers and will be celebrated by those in (academic) authority. Academic and professional spheres are clashing in this decision: she may win the battle. But by exalting herself via parading her beliefs, she will be humbled and lose the war. What war? Getting herself “out there” and known for a good residency spot, of course.

(You’re just a pharmacist, you say. How do you know this? I was a poli sci major, after all: I still study power in environments I’m in.)

It is your choice which sphere to hold in higher regard, but it is also your reality that you must learn new rules of power where you are. Sincerely, I believe that you will. Best of luck to you!

[Mik]

Some interesting thought there, but I dismiss the idea that deciding what is political is political in itself. That’s just a trap. The attire is clearly political, clearly hostile toward Jews and a very current flashpoint.

[Jolly]

Bounce 'em. The only comment I have is that the attending should have had a private conversation before the decision.

[George K]

@Jolly said in "I dismissed a medical student.":

The only comment I have is that the attending should have had a private conversation before the decision.

I long for the days when the pediatric surgeon dismissed a medical student from rounds for not wearing a necktie.

[LuFins Dad]

Was the student Palestinian? Or Bedouin?

I know pointing out hypocrisy in their reasoning is like pointing out the one green needle in the middle of a pine forest, but if they aren’t Palestinian, isn’t wearing the keffiyeh cultural appropriation of the highest order?

[George K]

@LuFins-Dad said in "I dismissed a medical student.":

Was the student Palestinian?

Unknown.

[LuFins Dad]

@George-K said in "I dismissed a medical student.":

@LuFins-Dad said in "I dismissed a medical student.":

Was the student Palestinian?

Unknown.

See my edit.

[Doctor Phibes]

FFS, you shouldn't be displaying political stuff on your office wall. How is this different? You're going to work, not some political circle jerk.

Just to lighten the mood, we were told not to have anything controversial up on our office wall. All well and good, until a few weeks ago somebody modified my name badge to say 'Tiny Tim...' with a little picture of a boy on crutches next to it.

What a predicament - do I take it down, and show I've not got a sense of humour? Or do I leave it up, and risk being chastised by somebody without a sense of humour?

The solution - I explained my predicament to the guy I'm 90% sure put it up. He modified it to say 'Timely Tim...' with a little clock face.

Anyway, back to the serious stuff....

[Mik]

Behead him publicly.

[taiwan_girl]

@Doctor-Phibes

[Copper]

@Mik said in "I dismissed a medical student.":

Behead him publicly.

Obviously

[Horace]

The thing about political protests is that they derive from times where if you protest, you die. And from those times derived the importance of free speech.

[blondie]

I think I’d simply send the student to the library for the entire rotation. This is still done, right? Like for the stupid or annoying ones?

[George K]

@blondie said in "I dismissed a medical student.":

This is still done, right? Like for the stupid or annoying ones?

Slightly off topic...

I worked with a vascular surgeon from Virginia. His first name was Julius - of course we called him "Julie" which he preferred, actually.

Anyhow, Julie was a stickler for being on time. 7:30 case meant the knife hits the skin at 7:30 and woe be to the resident who's not there to ensure that happens. We always brought Julie's patients into the OR at 7:15.

(says the retired guy at 6:55 am, sipping his coffee, still in his jammies, LOL)

Anyhow, one day, we got the patient off to sleep, and the resident was nowhere to be found. Julie was in the lounge, expecting to walk in and start cutting at 7:30. He walked into the room, and there was nothing going on. No prepping...nothing.

So, he decides to prep the leg for the bypass.

At about 7:40, the resident comes into the room, and starts to apologize.

Julie says (Virginia accent), "You know, I think I'm just gonna go ahead and do this here fem-pop. Why don't you go make some rounds?"

I loved the guy. He and I got along very well.

Julie was a very athletic guy. He died in a scuba diving accident in the Bahamas in 1986 - never found out what really happened. He was 53.