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The New Coffee Room

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  2. General Discussion
  3. Puzzle time - eclipse with an elipse?

Puzzle time - eclipse with an elipse?

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  • jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nyc
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Suppose you have two congruent ellipses that, together, cover a unit circle. These ellipses can have any eccentricity you like, but they must be congruent to each other.

    What is the smallest possible area one of these ellipses can have, such that they completely cover the circle?

    They’ll end up, after a lot of drama, with the same formula they use every time they have a trifecta: take away health care and food assistance from low income families and use the money to fund tax cuts for their donors.

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    • HoraceH Offline
      HoraceH Offline
      Horace
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      If congruent means identical but for rotation, I am leaning towards both ellipses being the unit circle itself.

      Education is extremely important.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • AxtremusA Offline
        AxtremusA Offline
        Axtremus
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Yeah, taking congruent to mean the same shape and size, I also think 1.

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        • KlausK Offline
          KlausK Offline
          Klaus
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          ***=ChatGPTs take***

          click to show

          To address the problem of covering a unit circle with two congruent ellipses, we need to consider the positioning, orientation, and size of the ellipses. To determine the smallest possible area that each ellipse can have, we must calculate an optimal configuration that ensures complete coverage of the circle with minimal overlapping area. Here's the step-by-step approach to solve this problem:

          1. Definition and Setup:

            • The unit circle has a radius of 1 and an area of (\pi).
            • We want two congruent ellipses to completely cover the unit circle.
          2. Properties of an Ellipse:

            • An ellipse can be defined by its semi-major axis (a) and semi-minor axis (b), with the area given by (\pi a b).
          3. Configuration for Optimal Coverage:

            • To maximize coverage with minimal area, the ellipses should be oriented such that they cover the circle along its diameter and slightly overlap at the center. This configuration generally requires ellipses that are longer and narrower, extending their major axes across the diameter of the circle.
            • For two ellipses to cover the circle, their combined coverage must include every point on the unit circle’s circumference. Hence, the major axis (a) must extend beyond the radius of the circle by at least the semi-minor axis (b).
          4. Calculation Approach:

            • Coverage along the diameter: If the major axis of each ellipse (a) is aligned with the diameter of the circle, then (a) should at least be (1 + b) to ensure coverage from the center to the edge of the circle.
            • Constraint: The point at which the ellipses' perimeters cross the circle must be exactly covered, i.e., at the furthest extent of the major axis, the boundary of the ellipse must coincide with the circle's circumference. Using trigonometry, this can be expressed as (a^2 \cos^2 \theta + b^2 \sin^2 \theta = 1) where (\theta) is the angle made by the radius intersecting the circumference at this point.
            • Optimization: Minimize the area of one ellipse, (\pi a b), under the constraint that two such ellipses cover the circle.
          5. Numerical Solution:

            • We must find the values of (a) and (b) such that the total area of one ellipse is minimized while still completely covering the unit circle. This is a complex optimization problem that might typically require numerical methods or calculus of variations for an exact solution.

          From a theoretical perspective, finding an analytical solution involves complex geometric and algebraic calculations. Therefore, for practical purposes, numerical simulation or experimentation (using software tools like MATLAB or Python) might be employed to find the smallest values of (a) and (b) satisfying the coverage constraint.

          To give an approximation:

          • If we consider ellipses with (a \approx 1.5) and (b \approx 0.75), then each ellipse's area would be (\pi \times 1.5 \times 0.75 \approx 3.5343). Two such ellipses would likely cover the circle if oriented and positioned correctly, though further reduction in area could be possible with a more precise configuration and calculation.

          Given this setup, the next steps could include using computational tools to refine the values of (a) and (b) that minimize the ellipse's area while ensuring coverage of the unit circle.

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          • HoraceH Offline
            HoraceH Offline
            Horace
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            ChatGPT doesn't know it's a puzzle. That bit of information is inevitably important in narrowing down possible answers.

            Education is extremely important.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • Doctor PhibesD Offline
              Doctor PhibesD Offline
              Doctor Phibes
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              More importantly, what would Margorie Taylor Greene have to say about this situation?

              I was only joking

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