A Letter on Justice and Open Debate

[Horace]

I was surprised to see, browsing twitter about this, that trans folk think American politics is obsessed with them. The obsession is, in their mind, an obsession with hating them, but it's definitely all about them one way or another. Meanwhile, it's not my feeling that much of anybody gives them a second thought. There's only one oppressed group in America that actually matters politically. And I doubt that group is going to be locking hands in solidarity with the trans community any time soon.

[Catseye3]

@Horace said in A Letter on Justice and Open Debate:

Meanwhile, it's not my feeling that much of anybody gives them a second thought.

I do. I give them many second thoughts, and they're all the same: Shut UP.

Okay, and also a third thought: I don't believe in transes. Everybody is what s/he was born as, period, end of the report. So, back to my second thought, Shut UP.

[George K]

International Manhunt Under Way For Those Who Signed Letter Supporting Tolerance Of Differing Viewpoints

People were alarmed Tuesday to see a disturbing letter published in Harper Magazine which asked for a more tolerant atmosphere for dissenting viewpoints. The letter was followed by a list of signatories, which has been handed to Interpol, who are now trying to hunt down these dangerous individuals.

“I mean, these people say you should be able to disagree about things without fear for your life and your job,” said trans activist Kendra Chandler. “And they signed this letter along with people who think gender has something to do with biology! I feel unsafe just knowing these people are out there.”

This attack on progressivism -- suggesting people shouldn’t be terrified to say something different from what is currently considered progressive thought -- has shaken the Left, but they have vowed to punish everyone associated with it. Already a few of the signatories have been captured and have subsequently denounced ever thinking open debate is okay. Most of the signatories are still at large, though, and if you encounter anyone who wants a society capable of handling differing viewpoints, Interpol has created a hotline to call.

[LuFins Dad]

Humanity has jumped the shark.

[Horace]

@LuFins-Dad said in A Letter on Justice and Open Debate:

Humanity has jumped the shark.

And anybody who claims that the left and the right are equally culpable in this shark jump is either silly in the head, or dishonest. Trump was elected in large part because he appealed to those who are watching the shark jump and disgusted that they can't talk about it out loud.

[xenon]

@Horace the only reason I’d root for Trump to win the next election is to hammer home the point that you can’t muzzle people.

To that extent I’m almost ambivalent about the outcome.

Almost... it'd end up winding the crazy pendulum even harder.

[jon-nyc]

Matt Yglesias shut down by his boss.

[jon-nyc]

Best comment:

Ezra Klein subtweeting and muzzling Yglesias, while allowing employees to tweet out public letters about how unsafe he's made them feel is 100% ultimate god-level douchebaggery. I would resign by the end of the day today.

[Loki]

I am not following the controversy? Why are people withdrawing their signature?

[Mik]

@jon-nyc said in A Letter on Justice and Open Debate:

Plus you can’t really rule out the possibility that the legion of women who have refused to have sex with you included some trans women.

You never know until you ask!

[Horace]

@Mik said in A Letter on Justice and Open Debate:

@jon-nyc said in A Letter on Justice and Open Debate:

Plus you can’t really rule out the possibility that the legion of women who have refused to have sex with you included some trans women.

You never know until you ask!

Asking is all you can do. After they say no, there's no way to politely check for scars.

[jon-nyc]

Great piece in NRO on Matt Yglesias.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/07/its-come-to-this-we-must-defend-matt-yglesias/?utm_source=recirc-mobile&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=top-stories&utm_term=fourth

[Horace]

Klein will hate that response. He has a keen nose for power grabs and to be seen to be kind and magnanimous has good messaging power. If he addresses it, he will frame it as a cynical ploy by NRO to capture the high ground.

[Loki]

Just so I am clear if J.K.Rowling had not signed this it would be no big deal?

[Doctor Phibes]

"the weaponization of victim status by vindictive, sophomoric busybodies who cannot bear the fact that someone else sees the world in a different way"

Nicely put

[LuFins Dad]

As far as I can tell, Rowling’s big sin is feeling that guys that biological males that identify as females should not be included in the rewards that feminism has won for women. And for this, her legacy is ruined.

[Doctor Phibes]

She's also managed to elevate herself to being discussed alongside Salman Rushdie, which was no mean feat.

[Horace]

I imagine trans folk are fierce and fearless combatants. They've already established that they're willing to self-mutilate to solve their emotional problems. Just what sort of clear headed response and self control do you suppose they'll have in the culture wars, which they now see as an extension of their life long psychological pain?

[Doctor Phibes]

The real problem in this debate is that everybody takes everything so personally. And that includes Rowling.

[jon-nyc]

Without Rowling the trans folks would have freaked out about Jesse Signal but not as much.

But had neither of them been there you might have heard some complaints about blacks on the list that don’t toe the woke line. In fact I’ve seen some of that but the trans women are more aggressive per Horace’s point.