An Experiment
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(physiology hat on)
Also I think that article has a bit of misinformation. Your lungs never completely empty. The amount of air left at the end of a normal breath is called the functional residual capacity (FRC). The FRC acts as a "buffer" so that as your blood goes through the lung, the amount of O2 being delivered doesn't drop to zero.
So, I think it would take more than just one or two breaths to lose consciouness. Assuming a normal breath of 500 ml and a normal lung volume per minute of 5000 ml, the "time constant" is about 10 minutes. It takes 3 "time constants" to replace something in a container with 97% of the "new stuff." IOW, to replace the air in your lungs with 100% helium, eg, would take about 30 minutes.
But...79% of what's in your lung is already N2, so those numbers change. And, I'm too lazy to do the calculations, because I'm retired and I need a whiskey.
(physiology hat off)
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Hit him with 20mg Valium before starting.
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@Jolly said in An Experiment:
Hit him with 20mg Valium before starting.
LOL.
We had a surgeon who liked to do his hernias under local anesthesia with sedation administered by the nurse. When Versed ("VERsatile SEDation" get it?) came out, someone told him it was "just like Valium."
Well, it's not.
So, he told his nurse to give the patient 10 mg of Versed, because "it's just like Valium." Patient stopped breathing and the anesthesiologist he said he didn't need made an unscheduled visit to OR #4.
This was in the day before pulse oximetry became standard, or even available, so it was a while before they realized the situation (the blood got dark).
All ended well, however, and Dr. P did some homework.
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Interesting thanks George. I am surprised there is no sensation of suffocation. Like when you breathe too much co2.
@Horace said in An Experiment:
Interesting thanks George. I am surprised there is no sensation of suffocation. Like when you breathe too much co2.
There isn't. I know a couple of people who were knocked out by nitrogen.
One guy entered a large vessel in Indonesia, thinking the air was safe, and collapsed. The standby guy was smart enough to put a air hose into the vessel. The first guy was medical airlift to Singapore, where he woke up.
He said that there was absolutely no sensation that anything was wrong. Breathing normally one second, and............ that was it. No memory of anything else.
The second guy stuck his head in a "manway" of a tower that had nitrogen. Same thing. No indication anything was wrong. Breathing normally and then............ He fortunately fell backward into the open air and recovered.
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Interesting thanks George. I am surprised there is no sensation of suffocation. Like when you breathe too much co2.
@Horace said in An Experiment:
Like when you breathe too much co2.
(physiology hat back on)
The PaCO2 (partial pressure of CO2 in your arterial blood) is the most potent respiratory stimulus. Breathing CO2 will increase PaCO2 and cause you to breathe faster and deeper.
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So I was confusing a response to too much co2 for a response to too little oxygen. Exhaling is what we need to do, in order to prevent discomfort. Nitrogen doesn’t prevent exhaling.
@Horace said in An Experiment:
So I was confusing a response to too much co2 for a response to too little oxygen
Right.
Hypoxemia is also a respiratory stimulus, however, just not as potent as CO2 (or, for that matter the amount of acid in your blood).
ETA, I'm also not sure about how "conscious" those responses are. A person with a lower pH in the blood will breathe more rapidly and deeper in an attempt to blow off CO2 (which becomes acid in the blood), but they are usually not aware of that. It just happens, and doesn't cause a sensation of breathlessness.
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A divided Alabama Supreme Court has ruled in favor of using nitrogen gas as a method of execution, marking the first instance of the method being considered for carrying out a death sentence.
The all-Republican court, in a 6-2 decision issued on Wednesday, granted the state attorney general’s request for an execution warrant for Kenneth Eugene Smith. Smith was one of two individuals convicted in the 1988 murder-for-hire killing of Elizabeth Sennett in northwestern Alabama. The specific execution date will be determined later by Governor Kay Ivey.
This decision brings Alabama closer to becoming the first state to pursue nitrogen gas as an execution method. However, it is likely that further legal challenges will emerge before this method is actually used. Other states like Oklahoma and Mississippi have also authorized nitrogen hypoxia for executions, a process in which an inmate breathes pure nitrogen and is deprived of the oxygen required for survival. While advocates argue it may be painless, opponents liken it to unethical human experimentation.
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SCOTUS will not block execution:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68089279
The US Supreme Court will not block Alabama from executing Kenneth Eugene Smith with nitrogen gas, a method never used before for capital punishment.
Smith had asked the court to intervene, saying that the execution was cruel and unusual punishment.
The execution, where toxic nitrogen will be pumped into his body through a mask, is planned for Thursday.
Alabama already tried to execute Smith by lethal injection two years ago for his 1989 murder conviction.
His scheduled execution could still be delayed while judges in the 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals consider a separate case Smith filed.
The three-judge panel heard arguments last Friday, but did not indicate when it would issue a ruling.
Smith's lawyers had filed the appeal with the lower court citing "untested methods".
Smith would be the first person in the US to face nitrogen gassing."Toxic nitrogen"
Um, hey journalists! It's 79% of every breath you take.
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To me, nitrogen is the way to go. Whether the death penalty is something the US should have is another question. But I think that nitrogen is less cruel than other methods.
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To me, nitrogen is the way to go. Whether the death penalty is something the US should have is another question. But I think that nitrogen is less cruel than other methods.
@taiwan_girl said in An Experiment:
I think that nitrogen is less cruel than other methods.
That seems to be the argument with which opponents disagree. They cite cases of animals asphyxiated with N2 - convulsions and vomiting occur.
Frankly, I don't understand the objection (putting aside the capital punishment basis). If you're going to kill someone, and they are unconscious, are seizures, vomiting, etc "cruel and unusual."
Yes, they are unseemly, and upsetting to those who watch, but as far as the subject is concerned, it's irrelevant.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@taiwan_girl said in An Experiment:
I think that nitrogen is less cruel than other methods.
That seems to be the argument with which opponents disagree. They cite cases of animals asphyxiated with N2 - convulsions and vomiting occur.
Frankly, I don't understand the objection (putting aside the capital punishment basis). If you're going to kill someone, and they are unconscious, are seizures, vomiting, etc "cruel and unusual."
Yes, they are unseemly, and upsetting to those who watch, but as far as the subject is concerned, it's irrelevant.
@George-K Agree.
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@taiwan_girl said in An Experiment:
I think that nitrogen is less cruel than other methods.
That seems to be the argument with which opponents disagree. They cite cases of animals asphyxiated with N2 - convulsions and vomiting occur.
Frankly, I don't understand the objection (putting aside the capital punishment basis). If you're going to kill someone, and they are unconscious, are seizures, vomiting, etc "cruel and unusual."
Yes, they are unseemly, and upsetting to those who watch, but as far as the subject is concerned, it's irrelevant.
@George-K said in An Experiment:
"cruel and unusual."
Remember, the other guy who was convicted of this murder was executed years ago. The only reason this one has taken so long is because the executioners were unable to find a vein for lethal injection. They spent two hours.
Should've called me.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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G George K referenced this topic on
