Uh, dude. It's their border, not ours.

@Jolly said in Uh, dude. It's their border, not ours.:

All are equal in the sight of God.

I ain't God.

So you can ignore biblical teaching when it suits you. Interesting.

Actually, you might want to pick up a Bible and find out what I just wrote is true.

On multiple levels.

Doctor Phibes

Sure, we can write off an entire people as scum. That's fine.

Mik

I think that's a bit of a strawman. There is plenty of reason to dislike the Gazans, primarily that whether they were directly involved or not they allowed Hamas to operate and carry out barbaric attacks from their cities since they elected them in 2006. That would indicate at least a passive support. The distaste comes from their actions, not who they are, and no serious person is calling for them to be eliminated. This stands in sharp contrast to their own actions demanding killing the jews.

Jolly

@Doctor-Phibes said in Uh, dude. It's their border, not ours.:

Sure, we can write off an entire people as scum. That's fine.

A pretty significant percentage are scum. By your fruits ye shall be known...I consider people who throw a baby into an oven and then rape the mother while she listens to her baby scream from pain, are pretty low in the scheme of things. That's just one incident in a long list of atrocities. I consider people who will aid, abet and harbor such vipers in their homes to not be much better.

I find very little ambivalence in this war. God can see into men's hearts. I can't.

Doctor Phibes

I think we should fight and stop the people who are committing the atrocities, not write off an entire nation as Untermenschen, which is what seems to be happening. Or in some cases deny that the concept of Palestinian is even valid. They become non-people?

There are Palestinian children children and babies dying too, a direct result of what Hamas started. The children didn't vote for Hamas. Sadly, their peers probably will in future. Seems like one of the goals should be to reduce the likelihood of this happening, and demonizing a race probably won't do that.

George K · "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

@Doctor-Phibes said in Uh, dude. It's their border, not ours.:

demonizing a race probably won't do that.

The Palestinians are not a "race." They are an ethnic community. The leadership they have chosen has made its expressed vow to eliminate Israel, by any means, for as long as it takes.

That is the goal.

How do you deal with that?

Many innocents were killed in Germany in WWII. More, in fact, than were killed in Britain or France. That was the result of the leadership that the people chose. Yet, the morality of the effort to totally eliminate Nazi-ism in WWII is not, at least in hindsight, questioned.

How does one reconcile these?

Doctor Phibes

@George-K said in Uh, dude. It's their border, not ours.:

Yet, the morality of the effort to totally eliminate Nazi-ism in WWII is not, at least in hindsight, questioned.

No, eliminating Nazism isn't questioned, and rightly so. But plenty of questions have been asked in hindsight about some of the methods employed. For example, do we defend what many Soviet soldiers did to civilian women and children as well as captured German troops during their invasion from the east? Because Stalin was little better than Hitler. The fact that he was on our side doesn't make what he did any better. Also, left to his own devices, the atrocities committed could well have continued far past the borders of Germany.

And no, I'm not comparing Israel to the Stalinist USSR or anybody else. I don't feel that comparisons to WW2 are generally a good idea.

Doctor Phibes

@George-K said in Uh, dude. It's their border, not ours.:

The Palestinians are not a "race." They are an ethnic community.

Isn't that a distinction without a difference?

Back when I was a student in the 80's, I shared a corridor with a couple of guys from Belfast. One of them told me at some length how bigoted The Republic of Ireland was as a country, before finishing with the statement 'Finny bastards!'. He was of the same race, but with a different ethnic background but probably didn't see it that way. Normally, quite an entertaining companion, he was also completely blind to his own bigotry.

Horace

Gazans are not all inbred and developmentally disabled. An above average portion of them are. The ones who did the heavy lifting in inventing PVC rockets are probably very smart and capable.

Doctor Phibes

@Horace said in Uh, dude. It's their border, not ours.:

Gazans are not all inbred and developmentally disabled. An above average portion of them are. The ones who did the heavy lifting in inventing PVC rockets are probably very smart and capable.

The average IQ in Egypt is 76.

And the US took Wernher von Braun with open arms in 1945.

Axtremus

@Doctor-Phibes said in Uh, dude. It's their border, not ours.:

The average IQ in Egypt is 76.

Off topic … this promoted me to lookup average IQ scores by country: https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

Jolly

War is a nasty business. There are no second place winners. At some point, as Ann Rand in the video I posted awhile back stated, nations can make rules, but most of the rules will be violated.

I think the Al Davis rule is most appropriate for war.

Doctor Phibes

Ayn Rand - the woman Christian conservatives turn to when Jesus doesn't make any sense?

George K · "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

The Hamas Leadership.

How does one deal with this.

Another "leader" stated the civilian casualties are not their concern. The Hamas government has no responsibility to protect the civilian population. "That is the job of the United Nations."

Horace

Incubated, destructive, anti-social cultures given a warm hug by western saviors, do not have a promising history of righting their ships.

As good as it feels to offer the hugs, it's not a step in the right direction for anybody. I mean except the hugger, who gets to feel good about themselves.

The New Coffee Room

Uh, dude. It's their border, not ours.