A Shaky Future?

[Jolly]

@Klaus said in A Shaky Future?:

@Jolly said in A Shaky Future?:

more full of shit than a Christmas turkey.

This is the most interesting part of this discussion so far. I never knew that Christmas turkeys are full of shit. Disgusting. Why do you eat them?

Shit is a wonderful Southern idiom. We can use that one word, and darn near write a Shakespeare sonnet...

[bachophile]

Shall I compare thee to a summer’s shit?

[Klaus]

@Jolly said in A Shaky Future?:

Shit is a wonderful Southern idiom. We can use that one word, and darn near write a Shakespeare sonnet...

I assume that sonnet would be shit.

[Loki]

@bachophile said in A Shaky Future?:

Shall I compare thee to a summer’s shit?

Open your noses; for which of you will stop
The vent of smelling when loud bowel speaks?
I, from the White House to the publisher’s liar,
Making a fart my post-horse, still unfold
The shitty acts commenced on this ball of earth.
Upon my tongues continual turds slide

[bachophile]

@Larry said in A Shaky Future?:

@bachophile said in A Shaky Future?:

@Loki said in A Shaky Future?:

I’d like to see Bolton write a book about himself and how far his “competence” took him. Spoiler alert- tool of the left before disposed of.

Look I disagree with 90% of his world view. But I think at age 71, a Yale lawyer, with the jobs of assistant attorney general, undersecretary of state, UN ambassador and national security advisor, I don’t think he is truly worried about his legacy. I would think his competence actually took him quite far. And from what I can tell from his book, he could not care one whit what the left does with his book because he makes very clear his disdain for the liberal world outlook.
His ire with trump is more about someone who could have advanced a conservative agenda because he had the mandate, vis a vis Russia or China or North Korea, but was too much obsessed with his own image and actually envied the ruthlessness of Putin, Kim Jong un or Xi Jinping, without the true leadership qualities u need to be a tyrant. He wasn’t up to the task because at the end of the day, he hasn’t grown out of being a reality show faker. With nothing but true disdain for his adoring base.

I can see how you might see it that way, but the truth is he is a little man with a Napoleon complex and pissed off because he found out he wasn't running the country.

I bet if he was the president he would push an agenda which you would back completely. He has contempt for liberals as much as you do.
Trump doenst think in those terms. Only in terms of his own narcissism. He will embrace anyone who is willing to adore him. Makes no difffernece who. In that sennse he is not racist but very egalitarian. He will take love from anyone as long as it puts trump above anything else.

He is such a pathetic man.

[Larry]

@bachophile said in A Shaky Future?:

@Larry said in A Shaky Future?:

@bachophile said in A Shaky Future?:

@Loki said in A Shaky Future?:

I’d like to see Bolton write a book about himself and how far his “competence” took him. Spoiler alert- tool of the left before disposed of.

Look I disagree with 90% of his world view. But I think at age 71, a Yale lawyer, with the jobs of assistant attorney general, undersecretary of state, UN ambassador and national security advisor, I don’t think he is truly worried about his legacy. I would think his competence actually took him quite far. And from what I can tell from his book, he could not care one whit what the left does with his book because he makes very clear his disdain for the liberal world outlook.
His ire with trump is more about someone who could have advanced a conservative agenda because he had the mandate, vis a vis Russia or China or North Korea, but was too much obsessed with his own image and actually envied the ruthlessness of Putin, Kim Jong un or Xi Jinping, without the true leadership qualities u need to be a tyrant. He wasn’t up to the task because at the end of the day, he hasn’t grown out of being a reality show faker. With nothing but true disdain for his adoring base.

I can see how you might see it that way, but the truth is he is a little man with a Napoleon complex and pissed off because he found out he wasn't running the country.

I bet if he was the president he would push an agenda which you would back completely. He has contempt for liberals as much as you do.
Trump doenst think in those terms. Only in terms of his own narcissism. He will embrace anyone who is willing to adore him. Makes no difffernece who. In that sennse he is not racist but very egalitarian. He will take love from anyone as long as it puts trump above anything else.

He is such a pathetic man.

I've never liked Bolton. I have always seen him with the same goggles you look at Tsrump through. And I disagree with your characterization of Trump "taking love from anyone as long as it puts Trump above anything else". Is he a bit narcissistic? Sure. Most successful people are to one degree or another. Is some of it comic relief done to piss off the haters? Sure. Is he crude sometimes? Sure. Should he shut his mouth so regimes? Sure. I'm guilty of every single one of those things.

But - does he love this country? Yes he does. Does he care about the people of this country? Yes he does. Has he been successful as President? HELL YES. Has he changed the Republican party? Some, but not enough. Does Joe Biden love this country? No. He loves Joe Biden. And isn't that a classic symptom of a true narcissist? Does Joe Biden love the people in this country try? No. Joe Biden loves Joe Biden. Does the democrat party of today love this country and the people in It? No, they do not. They love power. And before Trump came along they had it, even if a Republican was in the White House, even if the republicans were in the majority in Congress. No matter who was in office, the democrats ran the show. And now they are proving they are willing to burn this nation to the ground if that's what it takes to regain their power position.

That alone is all anyone should need to cause them to support Trump.

[Larry]

@bachophile said in A Shaky Future?:

@Larry is the Republican Party today what it was 15 yeas ago?

to my mind they have both gone to shit.

I can agree with that. BUT - right now, whether we like it or not, the only thing standing in the way of a Marxist takeover is the Republican party. And, the Republican party, as useless as some of them are, does have several very good and capable members. There's not a competent leader whatsoever in the democrat party.

[taiwan_girl]

@bachophile I agree with a lot of your summary. I will have to read that book at some point.

In my (very small) observations, the standing of the US on the world stage is lower than it has been since I can recall. In terms of respect, good feelings, willingness to work with, fear, etc. President Trump has not done a good job at all in regards to foreign affairs.

Our relationship with adversaries is (generally) worse than before
Our relationship with allies is (generally) worse than before

From talking to locals and government officials in various countries to having access to (semi) confidential white papers on foreign leaders opinions of the US, there is not a whole lot of positive thoughts about President Trump.

I agree that President Trump is a narcissist and like Larry says, all President are. However, I believe that President Trump takes it to a whole other level. And that clouds his abilities to really be effective and understand/analyze situations and peoples.

[Loki]

@bachophile said in A Shaky Future?:

@Larry said in A Shaky Future?:

@bachophile said in A Shaky Future?:

@Loki said in A Shaky Future?:

I’d like to see Bolton write a book about himself and how far his “competence” took him. Spoiler alert- tool of the left before disposed of.

Look I disagree with 90% of his world view. But I think at age 71, a Yale lawyer, with the jobs of assistant attorney general, undersecretary of state, UN ambassador and national security advisor, I don’t think he is truly worried about his legacy. I would think his competence actually took him quite far. And from what I can tell from his book, he could not care one whit what the left does with his book because he makes very clear his disdain for the liberal world outlook.
His ire with trump is more about someone who could have advanced a conservative agenda because he had the mandate, vis a vis Russia or China or North Korea, but was too much obsessed with his own image and actually envied the ruthlessness of Putin, Kim Jong un or Xi Jinping, without the true leadership qualities u need to be a tyrant. He wasn’t up to the task because at the end of the day, he hasn’t grown out of being a reality show faker. With nothing but true disdain for his adoring base.

I can see how you might see it that way, but the truth is he is a little man with a Napoleon complex and pissed off because he found out he wasn't running the country.

I bet if he was the president he would push an agenda which you would back completely. He has contempt for liberals as much as you do.
Trump doenst think in those terms. Only in terms of his own narcissism. He will embrace anyone who is willing to adore him. Makes no difffernece who. In that sennse he is not racist but very egalitarian. He will take love from anyone as long as it puts trump above anything else.

He is such a pathetic man.

To reduce to pure narcissism, is intellectually dishonest. He thinks he is right and is on a mission whether you agree with him or not.

[Jolly]

@Klaus said in A Shaky Future?:

@Jolly said in A Shaky Future?:

Shit is a wonderful Southern idiom. We can use that one word, and darn near write a Shakespeare sonnet...

I assume that sonnet would be shit.

Hot shit, indeed!

[Jolly]

@taiwan_girl said in A Shaky Future?:

@bachophile I agree with a lot of your summary. I will have to read that book at some point.

In my (very small) observations, the standing of the US on the world stage is lower than it has been since I can recall. In terms of respect, good feelings, willingness to work with, fear, etc. President Trump has not done a good job at all in regards to foreign affairs.

Our relationship with adversaries is (generally) worse than before
Our relationship with allies is (generally) worse than before

From talking to locals and government officials in various countries to having access to (semi) confidential white papers on foreign leaders opinions of the US, there is not a whole lot of positive thoughts about President Trump.

I agree that President Trump is a narcissist and like Larry says, all President are. However, I believe that President Trump takes it to a whole other level. And that clouds his abilities to really be effective and understand/analyze situations and peoples.

Until the first loud <BANG!> occurs, and then they will love him.

[Loki]

The best argument is that Trump is wrong, wrong, wrong. But the dem and media ethos is that the ends justify the means and have thrown up so much nonsense in the national consciousness that to forgive it is to be equally transactional.

I am torn wondering which is worse, Trump or the methods to take him down.

[Larry]

@taiwan_girl said in A Shaky Future?:

@bachophile I agree with a lot of your summary. I will have to read that book at some point.

In my (very small) observations, the standing of the US on the world stage is lower than it has been since I can recall. In terms of respect, good feelings, willingness to work with, fear, etc. President Trump has not done a good job at all in regards to foreign affairs.

Our relationship with adversaries is (generally) worse than before
Our relationship with allies is (generally) worse than before

From talking to locals and government officials in various countries to having access to (semi) confidential white papers on foreign leaders opinions of the US, there is not a whole lot of positive thoughts about President Trump.

I agree that President Trump is a narcissist and like Larry says, all President are. However, I believe that President Trump takes it to a whole other level. And that clouds his abilities to really be effective and understand/analyze situations and peoples.

His ability to understand and analyze situations and people is far far better than you know.

As for our relationship with adversaries: obviously you'd prefer we went back to kissing their asses and letting them run all over us.

As for our relationship with allies: 1. What you think does not alter the fact that you're wrong, and 2. Don't mistake the grumbling you hear because they're being expected to pay their share as a problem with our relationship with that country.

The news media pushes a dishonest narrative, and you parrot that narrative to a T.

[Loki]

The truly intellectual root of being anti Trump is trying to preserve globalism, some call it the New World Order.

Of course all read about is fascist, racist, Russian agent, narcissist, mentally ill blah blah blah.

It would be much more interesting to debate the real issue but the dems and media must be terribly afraid of that, or learned that cheap talking points are more effective in consolidating the low information base.

[Horace]

I think the process by which pop culture could be satisfied that the world likes us again would involve capitulation and self-flagellation at every step.

[Jolly]

@Loki said in A Shaky Future?:

The truly intellectual root of being anti Trump is trying to preserve globalism, some call it the New World Order.

Bingo...

[Copper]

Maybe if Mr. Trump traveled to every country, that would let him in, and knelt and apologized for having a great country.

That might help.

[Renauda]

I am not going to add much except two points.

One, China sits on Russia's sparsely populated SE border and is an important customer for Russian raw materials. Putin is all about stability, he does not want the Russian far east in any way unstable. It is in Russia's interest to have strong relations with the PRC, regardless of whether Moscow actually trusts Bejing.

Two, it was the West that assumed and actually came to to believe that China would embark on liberalisation and democraticisation as it grows economically. The Chinese Communists had no such intention, never did and probably never will. We in the West are just beginning to wake up to the fact that they have remained orthodox Marxists - Leninists all along. The economic policy is a only means to modernize and strengthen the Party's hold on power.

[Rainman]

@Renauda said in A Shaky Future?:

Two, it was the West that assumed and actually came to to believe that China would embark on liberalisation and democraticisation as it grows economically.

Renauda, at the time, did you think there was a hope that "liberalization and democratization" might work? I stress "at the time" because 20/20 hindsight and all that.

I thought it might i.e., capitalism would enrich their middle class, those at the top of the hierarchy would still enjoy wealth and power, everybody happy enough, the ruthless nature would dissipate over the decades.

Good idea though, eh? Worth the attempt?

[Renauda]

Up until five or six years ago I didn't give China much thought.