25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match
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@George-K said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
@Jolly said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
In election law, you must have standing.
Wasn't that the basis for rejecting a large number of Trump's claims of fraud? No standing?
Yeppers.
Wasn't that fraud did or did not occur.
@Jolly said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
@George-K said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
@Jolly said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
In election law, you must have standing.
Wasn't that the basis for rejecting a large number of Trump's claims of fraud? No standing?
Yeppers.
Wasn't that fraud did or did not occur.
Can either of you back up that claim, that "lack of standing" is "the basis for rejecting a large number of Trump's claims of fraud"?
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@Jolly said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
@George-K said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
@Jolly said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
In election law, you must have standing.
Wasn't that the basis for rejecting a large number of Trump's claims of fraud? No standing?
Yeppers.
Wasn't that fraud did or did not occur.
Can either of you back up that claim, that "lack of standing" is "the basis for rejecting a large number of Trump's claims of fraud"?
@Axtremus said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
Can either of you back up that claim, that "lack of standing" is "the basis for rejecting a large number of Trump's claims of fraud"?
I misspoke mistyped. I should have said that a large number of cases before the courts were dismissed without ever going to trial.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_U.S._presidential_election
These were dismissed for lack of standing:
Gohmert et al. v. Pence
Texas v. Pennsylvania et al.
Bowyer v. Ducey
Burk v. Ducey
Wisconsin Voters Alliance et al. v. Pence et al
Wood v. Raffensperger
Pearson v. Kemp
Favorito et al. v. Fulton County et al."Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@Axtremus said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
Can either of you back up that claim, that "lack of standing" is "the basis for rejecting a large number of Trump's claims of fraud"?
I misspoke mistyped. I should have said that a large number of cases before the courts were dismissed without ever going to trial.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_U.S._presidential_election
These were dismissed for lack of standing:
Gohmert et al. v. Pence
Texas v. Pennsylvania et al.
Bowyer v. Ducey
Burk v. Ducey
Wisconsin Voters Alliance et al. v. Pence et al
Wood v. Raffensperger
Pearson v. Kemp
Favorito et al. v. Fulton County et al.@George-K said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
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These were dismissed for lack of standing:Gohmert et al. v. Pence
Texas v. Pennsylvania et al.
Bowyer v. Ducey
Burk v. Ducey
Wisconsin Voters Alliance et al. v. Pence et al
Wood v. Raffensperger
Pearson v. Kemp
Favorito et al. v. Fulton County et al.8 out of 60 is but a small fraction of all the lawsuits.
And it does not appear that Trump is party to any of those 8 lawsuits.
Want standing? If Trump is committed enough to make himself a party to those lawsuits, maybe standing would not have been an issue. -
@George-K said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
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These were dismissed for lack of standing:Gohmert et al. v. Pence
Texas v. Pennsylvania et al.
Bowyer v. Ducey
Burk v. Ducey
Wisconsin Voters Alliance et al. v. Pence et al
Wood v. Raffensperger
Pearson v. Kemp
Favorito et al. v. Fulton County et al.8 out of 60 is but a small fraction of all the lawsuits.
And it does not appear that Trump is party to any of those 8 lawsuits.
Want standing? If Trump is committed enough to make himself a party to those lawsuits, maybe standing would not have been an issue.@Axtremus said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
@George-K said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
…
These were dismissed for lack of standing:Gohmert et al. v. Pence
Texas v. Pennsylvania et al.
Bowyer v. Ducey
Burk v. Ducey
Wisconsin Voters Alliance et al. v. Pence et al
Wood v. Raffensperger
Pearson v. Kemp
Favorito et al. v. Fulton County et al.8 out of 60 is but a small fraction of all the lawsuits.
And it does not appear that Trump is party to any of those 8 lawsuits.
Want standing? If Trump is committed enough to make himself a party to those lawsuits, maybe standing would not have been an issue.8/60 is a small fraction? Since that translates to 13.5%, then I guess you feel that the Asian American Community is less than even a small fraction of the US?
The Brad
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I mean, that's 4.5/60...
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@Axtremus said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
@George-K said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
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These were dismissed for lack of standing:Gohmert et al. v. Pence
Texas v. Pennsylvania et al.
Bowyer v. Ducey
Burk v. Ducey
Wisconsin Voters Alliance et al. v. Pence et al
Wood v. Raffensperger
Pearson v. Kemp
Favorito et al. v. Fulton County et al.8 out of 60 is but a small fraction of all the lawsuits.
And it does not appear that Trump is party to any of those 8 lawsuits.
Want standing? If Trump is committed enough to make himself a party to those lawsuits, maybe standing would not have been an issue.8/60 is a small fraction? Since that translates to 13.5%, then I guess you feel that the Asian American Community is less than even a small fraction of the US?
@LuFins-Dad said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
… I guess you feel that the Asian American Community is less than even a small fraction of the US?
Indeed I do.
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Then the piano industry just needs to shut it down now…
The Brad
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Then the piano industry just needs to shut it down now…
@LuFins-Dad said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
Then the piano industry just needs to shut it down now…
Not going to talk you out of making backup plans if you see some writing on the wall after realizing that your industry and livelihood depend on a small fraction of the general population in this country. Then again, there is no lack of other industries that thrive on serving small fractions of populations. For example, the “infants” market (“infants” makes up only a small fraction of the general population), the “ultra luxury goods” market (the “ultra-rich” makes up only a small fraction of the general population), pharmaceuticals for rare diseases (by definition only a small fraction of people are afflicted by “rare diseases”), so as a matter of choosing a market for your business, “small fraction of the general population” by itself need not be a death knell.
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So...What is the allowable percentage of fraud in an election?
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@Jolly said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
So...What is the allowable percentage of fraud in an election?
“Allowable” as a matter of policy preference? Zero.
“Tolerable” as a measure of limit on the resiliency of our republic? Definitively greater than zero or the we would not have this republic today.
You can also ask the same question about “voting rights violations” and the same answers would also apply.
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Not knowing what "lack of standing" meant, I went to
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/standing
the Supreme Court created a three-part test to determine whether a party has standing to sue:
- The plaintiff must have suffered an "injury in fact," meaning that the injury is of a legally protected interest which is (a) concrete and particularized and (b) actual or imminent
- There must be a causal connection between the injury and the conduct brought before the court
- It must be likely, rather than speculative, that a favorable decision by the court will redress the injury
So, it appears that as @jon-nyc said, it is very possible that the cases were dismissed because there was just no evidence
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Not knowing what "lack of standing" meant, I went to
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/standing
the Supreme Court created a three-part test to determine whether a party has standing to sue:
- The plaintiff must have suffered an "injury in fact," meaning that the injury is of a legally protected interest which is (a) concrete and particularized and (b) actual or imminent
- There must be a causal connection between the injury and the conduct brought before the court
- It must be likely, rather than speculative, that a favorable decision by the court will redress the injury
So, it appears that as @jon-nyc said, it is very possible that the cases were dismissed because there was just no evidence
@taiwan_girl said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
So, it appears that as @jon-nyc said, it is very possible that the cases were dismissed because there was just no evidence
There's a difference. "Standing" means you have a stake in the case. If I were to sue an election official in Detroit, the case would be dismissed because I live in the Chicago area. I have no standing.
Even if I produced tons of evidence that fraud had occurred, the case would be dismissed on the basis of standing.
OTOH, if I sued an official in Chicago because someone told me that things were...interesting, I would be required to provide evidence. I have standing, but without showing something to indicate fraud, it would be dismissed out-of-hand.
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@taiwan_girl said in 25% of 2020 Maricopa County Mail-in Ballots Had No Signature Match:
So, it appears that as @jon-nyc said, it is very possible that the cases were dismissed because there was just no evidence
There's a difference. "Standing" means you have a stake in the case. If I were to sue an election official in Detroit, the case would be dismissed because I live in the Chicago area. I have no standing.
Even if I produced tons of evidence that fraud had occurred, the case would be dismissed on the basis of standing.
OTOH, if I sued an official in Chicago because someone told me that things were...interesting, I would be required to provide evidence. I have standing, but without showing something to indicate fraud, it would be dismissed out-of-hand.
@George-K Ahh okay! Thanks!!
