I don’t really think they’ll be able to convict Trump…

[Jolly]

@Axtremus said in I don’t really think they’ll be able to convict Trump…:

@Jolly said in I don’t really think they’ll be able to convict Trump…:

Want to beat Trump? Beat him at the ballot box.

President Biden did beat Trump at the ballot box.

Trump doesn't think so. I don't, either. Not the electoral college.

Biden may well have won the popular vote.

[taiwan_girl]

@Jolly said in I don’t really think they’ll be able to convict Trump…:

Trump doesn't think so

FOr all his loud complaining, President Trump has yet to present any real evidence that this occurred.

"President Trump, what evidence do you have that the election was stolen?

I have the evidence that proves it.

Are you willing to share it?

I don't have to because I know the election was stolen!"

And so the circle goes around and and around. Other than a friend of a friends brother in law's ex wife office colleagues son teacher who heard it from another friend of a friend........................

[George K]

@taiwan_girl said in I don’t really think they’ll be able to convict Trump…:

FOr all his loud complaining, President Trump has yet to present any real evidence that this occurred.

Sorta kinda true...

Many of the cases brought to the courts that supposedly proved election shenanigans were dismissed on technical grounds, and the alleged evidence never saw the inside of a courtroom.

Secondly, he doesn't have to prove anything with respect to these charges. That's the government's job. It's not a crime to deny election results, or even to allege fraud. Even Mrs. Clinton alleges the election was stolen from her.

[George K]

More from McCarthy:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/08/why-the-fani-willis-case-is-ill-conceived/

But because Willis, like Smith, lacks proof of violence and hence proof of an actual insurrection, she is left groping for a unifying crime that would tie them all to the same conspiracy.

That’s easy, Democrats insist: Trump et al. “conspired to steal the election.” Well, look high and low through the penal law of Georgia if you’d like, but you’ll find no such offense. Notice Democrats never refer to it as “stealing” when Stacey Abrams does it. No matter. The point is: It’s simply not a crime to try to overturn an election through nonviolent means of political and legal pressure. And even if you believe, as I do, that Trump is morally and politically responsible for the violence of January 6, that is not a valid justification for distorting criminal laws in order to convict him. The criminal-justice system is not in the cosmic-justice business. To the contrary, even the worst of the worst criminals are presumed innocent, and the law is geared to make the close calls go the defendant’s way

Willis tries to overcome this inconvenience by invoking RICO — Georgia’s version of the federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act. But RICO is unavailing because the supposed “criminal organization” she alleges in count one is a fiction. The 19 defendants named are not in any way an organization, much less a criminal one. More to the point, the charge falls woefully short of what RICO requires: an association in fact that poses a continuing threat to the public. Here, the loose, scattershot, fleeting union of Trump supporters was going to end by January 20, 2021, one way or another.

To reiterate, the innovation of RICO was to target not the crimes committed by such enterprises as a mafia “family” but rather the participation in an enterprise that seeks to sustain itself over time so it can continue generating money and power through criminal activity. Willis’s 19 defendants were not joined in such an enterprise. They had no interest in being part of a continuing venture. To the contrary, they shared the single, lawful objective to retain Donald Trump in office, even if it took dodgy lawsuits (though when pressed by judges, they usually folded rather than trying fraudulently to prove fraud) and political strong-arming (but not violence). They may have committed crimes in attempting to achieve their lawful objective, and Willis may properly prosecute those. But that doesn’t turn a lawful objective into a criminal conspiracy, much less a RICO conspiracy.

Maybe there is something we don't know?

Now, the fact that Willis lacks a viable conspiracy charge that she can bring against all 19 defendants does not mean she has no viable charges. She may have several, although they should not have been brought as a single case. In the best light to her, she should have brought four cases — although one of those should probably be broken into separate cases, and one of them should be dismissed prior to trial as failing to state a crime.

[Jolly]

None of the charges are about actual justice. They are political in nature, designed for one purpose.

[George K]

It's interesting to see the differing opinions of McCarthy and Barr. Barr seems to think that there's some there there.

[jon-nyc]

@Jolly said in I don’t really think they’ll be able to convict Trump…:

None of the charges are about actual justice. They are political in nature, designed for one purpose.

Yes, Trump is as innocent as the day is long.

[Jolly]

@jon-nyc said in I don’t really think they’ll be able to convict Trump…:

@Jolly said in I don’t really think they’ll be able to convict Trump…:

None of the charges are about actual justice. They are political in nature, designed for one purpose.

Yes, Trump is as innocent as the day is long.

Let's put it this way...There are people in politics guilty of much worse things than Trump. Yet, Trump seems to be the only one worthy of such scrutiny...

[NobodySock]

Let's see, worse than causing an insurrection and an attempted coup to override a fair election. Worse than molesting and raping dozens of women and just grabbing them by the pussy. Worse than lying to America and saying that Covid is nothing to worry about and will just vanish, poof!, while doing nothing in the first critical days of its spread except to keep Chinese from flying to America. Worse than stealing top secret documents and most likely having already sold many of them to Russia, China and Saudi Arabia.
Hmmmmm, those people must have done something pretty bad.

[George K]

@NobodySock said in I don’t really think they’ll be able to convict Trump…:

Let's see, worse than causing an insurrection and an attempted coup to override a fair election. Worse than molesting and raping dozens of women and just grabbing them by the pussy. Worse than lying to America and saying that Covid is nothing to worry about and will just vanish, poof!, while doing nothing in the first critical days of its spread except to keep Chinese from flying to America. Worse than stealing top secret documents and most likely having already sold many of them to Russia, China and Saudi Arabia.

QFT

[Copper]

I have to admit, I don't believe most of the post that was just quoted.

I'm sure most of you guys believe all of it, I'm feeling a little left out.

[LuFins Dad]

@NobodySock said in I don’t really think they’ll be able to convict Trump…:

Let's see, worse than causing an insurrection and an attempted coup to override a fair election. Worse than molesting and raping dozens of women and just grabbing them by the pussy. Worse than lying to America and saying that Covid is nothing to worry about and will just vanish, poof!, while doing nothing in the first critical days of its spread except to keep Chinese from flying to America. Worse than stealing top secret documents and most likely having already sold many of them to Russia, China and Saudi Arabia.
Hmmmmm, those people must have done something pretty bad.

He did all of that? Shocking!

[Jolly]

Is there anything Trump can't do?

[George K]

@Jolly said in I don’t really think they’ll be able to convict Trump…:

Is there anything Trump can't do?

Keep his mouth shut?

[kluurs]

@Jolly said in I don’t really think they’ll be able to convict Trump…:

Let's put it this way...There are people in politics guilty of much worse things than Trump.

I suspect it is not in the interest of either tribe to examine corruption too closely as it is so thoughtfully interwoven into the fabric of our nation's system of governance.

As for DJT, he's got a pretty long history of grift, deception, theft and such. A review of the 7 heavenly virtues vs sins versus the 7 deadly sins would suggest Trump does better the latter, than the former.

Vitrue: Temperance, Diligence, Kindness, Patience, Humility, Chastity
Sin: Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Envy, Wrath, Pride

On the other hand, I suspect very few congress critters do well with integrity or most of the virtues. It's not like one team owns integrity.
The system encourages (requires?) that politicians sell themselves. And looking backward, while the scale of corruption may be more ingrained, it was always there.

[Mik]

[taiwan_girl]

To me, saying that others maybe did the same thing is no excuse. Fine, go after them also. But to say that President Trump should get a "free pass" because of this is a bad idea.

Normalizing the behavior is a downward trend.

Suppose you are traveling down a road side by side with another car. The speed limit 60 kph and you two cars are going 80kph. The police man stops just you and the other car continues. You get a ticket. Should you not get the ticket because there was another car (that did not get a ticket) doing the same thing? Do you think a judge would agree to that strategy?

[Jolly]

@kluurs said in I don’t really think they’ll be able to convict Trump…:

@Jolly said in I don’t really think they’ll be able to convict Trump…:

Let's put it this way...There are people in politics guilty of much worse things than Trump.

I suspect it is not in the interest of either tribe to examine corruption too closely as it is so thoughtfully interwoven into the fabric of our nation's system of governance.

As for DJT, he's got a pretty long history of grift, deception, theft and such. A review of the 7 heavenly virtues vs sins versus the 7 deadly sins would suggest Trump does better the latter, than the former.

Vitrue: Temperance, Diligence, Kindness, Patience, Humility, Chastity
Sin: Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Envy, Wrath, Pride

On the other hand, I suspect very few congress critters do well with integrity or most of the virtues. It's not like one team owns integrity.
The system encourages (requires?) that politicians sell themselves. And looking backward, while the scale of corruption may be more ingrained, it was always there.

You probably know as well as I do, there aren't any saints who inhabit the Oval Office.

[George K]

There's no question that bad behavior on the part of one party doesn't excuse similar bad behavior on another party.

But...when one party is not prosecuted and another one is, that's problematic. The situation isn't quite as simple as a cop stopping one speeder and not another. Clinton's mishandling of classified materials, and destruction of potential evidence doesn't excuse Trump, but it makes you question what the Department of Justice is doing.

[taiwan_girl]

@George-K I understand what you are saying, but a defense of "others are doing the same thing and not getting arrested" isn't much of a defense.