The War On Math

[Horace]

Basic math is just an IQ test in another form. Fun fact that I came across a long time ago and have never verified, algebra is actually more of a verbal intelligence skill than the rest of math, which is more performance intelligence.

I was recently listening to a Glenn Loury podcast about affirmative action. One remarkable statistic is that 50% of black kids intent on pursuing STEM in university, drop out of the program, for more accessible degree paths. Compared to 7% of white kids. And presumably an even smaller % of asian kids. You can put the kids in the lecture halls, but there is little you can do to give them aptitude.

[Jolly]

You can't make chicken salad out of chickenshit.

Kids entering college in many STEM programs today, need at least an introductory course in calculus, in high school. That's a problem in minority schools, in small rural schools and with homeschooled kids.

We must address this at both high school and college level.

As for the crappy teaching of math at the lower levels, K-8, we really need to return to what works, ideology crap be damned. Memorization of time tables, basic math concepts, word problems, drlls, etc.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Jolly said in The War On Math:

You can't make chicken salad out of chickenshit.

Kids entering college in many STEM programs today, need at least an introductory course in calculus, in high school. That's a problem in minority schools, in small rural schools and with homeschooled kids.

We must address this at both high school and college level.

As for the crappy teaching of math at the lower levels, K-8, we really need to return to what works, ideology crap be damned. Memorization of time tables, basic math concepts, word problems, drlls, etc.

Or you could take the kids who clearly suck at math and see what their drawing skills are. You'll catch a few more that way.

[Klaus]

What exactly does "algebra" and "calculus" mean in the context of the US school system?

I assume "calculus" refers to differentiating and integrating polynomials?

And "algebra"? Is that the set of methods to transform and solve equations?

[Horace]

@Klaus said in The War On Math:

What exactly does "algebra" and "calculus" mean in the context of the US school system?

I assume "calculus" refers to differentiating and integrating polynomials?

And "algebra"? Is that the set of methods to transform and solve equations?

The way they're used in the piece, is to describe the most basic, entry level aspects of each. Algebra means figuring out what X is when x-5=3. Calculus means deriving the fundamental theorem of calculus from derivatives and limits.

[Klaus]

So "algebra" is basically "how to deal with variables", as opposed to arithmetic, which has just concrete numbers. Got it.

And yes, it is of course completely silly to drop math topics in the name of "equity".

[kluurs]

I remember listening to a podcast where a professor spoke of a neighbor's daughter who wanted to go into a STEM field. She was accepted into both Yale and University of Maryland. She chose Yale - and when confronted with the kinds of competition she found there, she changed majors - went into a softer subject. I don't recall her choice. The professor noted that had she gone to University of Maryland, she might have faired betted. Rather than struggling to be an average student at Yale, she likely would have been the same outstanding student she had been in high school at University of Maryland - and perhaps have had a successful career in STEM. Having read a book criticizing the diversity movement, one of the key criticisms was exactly that. It's not helping anyone to put to have people compete against clearly more academically advantaged students. It's doing no one a favor. In other words, for most folks, it's better to be the big fish in a pond than a small one in an aggressive pond. That's not to say that there aren't exceptions - i.e. people who amazingly have incredible skills to rise to the challenge - but for every one of those, there are 10 who crash and burn.

[Horace]

The future of large corporations is going to be a nightmarish identitarian anti-meritocracy, after AI takes over for all the stuff the smart people used to be needed for. Straight white males might start transitioning just for the career advantage.

[Mik]

Yep. The mantra is if they go to a better school they will necessarily do better, which is not true.

What they forget is that getting an engineering degree, or a law degree, or most any degree, does not make you an engineer or whatever. it gives you enough tools to go out and learn to be that. It's important to find an environment where the student will thrive as opposed to being crushed by competition.

The Ivy League degree does not necessarily make you more successful in your field. I have four years of undergraduate education but only an associate degree, yet I've done as well or better than most of the MBAs I know.

[Copper]

If we have to make the smart students stupid to achieve equity, then so be it.

No justice, no peace.

[Jolly]

@Aqua-Letifer said in The War On Math:

@Jolly said in The War On Math:

You can't make chicken salad out of chickenshit.

Kids entering college in many STEM programs today, need at least an introductory course in calculus, in high school. That's a problem in minority schools, in small rural schools and with homeschooled kids.

We must address this at both high school and college level.

As for the crappy teaching of math at the lower levels, K-8, we really need to return to what works, ideology crap be damned. Memorization of time tables, basic math concepts, word problems, drlls, etc.

Or you could take the kids who clearly suck at math and see what their drawing skills are. You'll catch a few more that way.

Nobody should absolutely suck at math. Not up to and including high school level Algebra 1. Not if they are average intelligence.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Jolly said in The War On Math:

@Aqua-Letifer said in The War On Math:

@Jolly said in The War On Math:

You can't make chicken salad out of chickenshit.

Kids entering college in many STEM programs today, need at least an introductory course in calculus, in high school. That's a problem in minority schools, in small rural schools and with homeschooled kids.

We must address this at both high school and college level.

As for the crappy teaching of math at the lower levels, K-8, we really need to return to what works, ideology crap be damned. Memorization of time tables, basic math concepts, word problems, drlls, etc.

Or you could take the kids who clearly suck at math and see what their drawing skills are. You'll catch a few more that way.

Nobody should absolutely suck at math. Not up to and including high school level Algebra 1. Not if they are average intelligence.

Yet it's completely acceptable for them to be absolute crap at writing, drawing, gardening, home finance, and to never play an instrument in all of their childhood.

No parent in America would ever say, "okay well your Calc and AP English grades are good but what's with this B in art/creative writing/home ec/band?"

[Doctor Phibes]

@Jolly said in The War On Math:

Nobody should absolutely suck at math. Not up to and including high school level Algebra 1. Not if they are average intelligence.

Half the population is below average intelligence.

[George K]

@Doctor-Phibes said in The War On Math:

Half the population is below average intelligence.

Except in Lake Wobegon.

[Mik]

@Jolly said in The War On Math:

Nobody should absolutely suck at math. Not up to and including high school level Algebra 1. Not if they are average intelligence.

Ahem. I am fine at all basic math. Fractions, number sets, geometry, all that. Algebra just leaves me cold. I barely passed it in high school because my father literally locked me in his bedroom until I got all the work done. It made no sense to me.

When I was 26 and in college, I decided to take it as an elective for computer science. I was older and would apply myself more diligently. Still made no sense.

[Jolly]

@Aqua-Letifer said in The War On Math:

@Jolly said in The War On Math:

@Aqua-Letifer said in The War On Math:

@Jolly said in The War On Math:

You can't make chicken salad out of chickenshit.

Kids entering college in many STEM programs today, need at least an introductory course in calculus, in high school. That's a problem in minority schools, in small rural schools and with homeschooled kids.

We must address this at both high school and college level.

As for the crappy teaching of math at the lower levels, K-8, we really need to return to what works, ideology crap be damned. Memorization of time tables, basic math concepts, word problems, drlls, etc.

Or you could take the kids who clearly suck at math and see what their drawing skills are. You'll catch a few more that way.

Nobody should absolutely suck at math. Not up to and including high school level Algebra 1. Not if they are average intelligence.

Yet it's completely acceptable for them to be absolute crap at writing, drawing, gardening, home finance, and to never play an instrument in all of their childhood.

No parent in America would ever say, "okay well your Calc and AP English grades are good but what's with this B in art/creative writing/home ec/band?"

Within a certain level of accomplishment, most people who don't drool when they walk can become competent.

1. Every child used to able to write in cursive. Some are better at penmanship than others, but other people could at least read what other people wrote.
2. Anybody above that drooling curve, can be taught to write. Not the next great American novel, but a decent letter, a thank you note or a logical set of simple instructions.
3. Gardening? Yep, if it's important enough that you learn or go hungry, you learn.
4. Dollars and cents? Yes, anybody above the drool factor can be taught. Willful adherence is debatable, but it's not because they can't.
5. Musical instrument? Why do you think they invented the piano?

[Doctor Phibes]

The world’s changed a lot in the last 50 years. I’d humbly suggest what we teach and how we teach it should reflect this

[Jolly]

The world has changed, but people are essentially still the same. Now, we can use new approaches and different techniques - if they can be proven to work - but basics are basics.

[LuFins Dad]

@Doctor-Phibes said in The War On Math:

@Jolly said in The War On Math:

Nobody should absolutely suck at math. Not up to and including high school level Algebra 1. Not if they are average intelligence.

Half the population is below average intelligence.

No, half the population is below mean intelligence.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Doctor-Phibes said in The War On Math:

The world’s changed a lot in the last 50 years. I’d humbly suggest what we teach and how we teach it should reflect this

Which means we need to go back, not forward. Kids don't need to go all in on another damn system that's going to be obsolete in 5 years, they need to learn how to think for themselves. If you believe public school is providing that you're out of your mind.