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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?

What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?

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  • M Away
    M Away
    Mik
    wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 02:08 last edited by
    #3

    The road not taken.

    I think it is good that the world saw what it could do early on.

    "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

    G 1 Reply Last reply 24 Jul 2023, 02:22
    • M Mik
      24 Jul 2023, 02:08

      The road not taken.

      I think it is good that the world saw what it could do early on.

      G Offline
      G Offline
      George K
      wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 02:22 last edited by
      #4

      @Mik said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

      I think it is good that the world saw what it could do early on.

      I remember reading a comment saying, "The United States should have warned Japan about this."

      The best reply:

      We did.
      Twice.
      The first warning was in writing, the second was called "Hiroshima."

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • A Offline
        A Offline
        Axtremus
        wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 02:34 last edited by
        #5

        The other "what if" is "what if the US dropped the atomic bombs in Germany instead of Japan."

        1 Reply Last reply
        • M Away
          M Away
          Mik
          wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 02:36 last edited by
          #6

          By the time it was developed there was nothing left in Germany to drop it on.

          "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

          A C 2 Replies Last reply 24 Jul 2023, 02:41
          • M Mik
            24 Jul 2023, 02:36

            By the time it was developed there was nothing left in Germany to drop it on.

            A Offline
            A Offline
            Axtremus
            wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 02:41 last edited by
            #7

            @Mik said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

            By the time it was developed there was nothing left in Germany to drop it on.

            How so? What metrics do you use to come up with the judgement that says Japan still had assets worth bombing but Germany did not?

            M 1 Reply Last reply 24 Jul 2023, 10:28
            • H Offline
              H Offline
              Horace
              wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 02:47 last edited by
              #8

              Lol

              Hey I’m no history buff, but the dates of Germany’s surrender and the bombing of Japan are googlable.

              Education is extremely important.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • K Offline
                K Offline
                kluurs
                wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 03:17 last edited by
                #9

                As a child I remember seeing a copy of a WWII era Fortune magazine where they spoke of how we would win the war with Japan by 1948.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • J Offline
                  J Offline
                  Jolly
                  wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 03:47 last edited by
                  #10

                  Since Japan started WW2, I guess it's only fitting they were the recipient of the most powerful weapon used during the war.

                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                  G 1 Reply Last reply 24 Jul 2023, 11:31
                  • A Axtremus
                    24 Jul 2023, 02:41

                    @Mik said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

                    By the time it was developed there was nothing left in Germany to drop it on.

                    How so? What metrics do you use to come up with the judgement that says Japan still had assets worth bombing but Germany did not?

                    M Away
                    M Away
                    Mik
                    wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 10:28 last edited by Mik
                    #11

                    @Axtremus said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

                    @Mik said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

                    By the time it was developed there was nothing left in Germany to drop it on.

                    How so? What metrics do you use to come up with the judgement that says Japan still had assets worth bombing but Germany did not?

                    For starters the first atomic bomb was not ready before July 45, three months after Germany surrendered. The Allies all had troops in Germany, so we'd have been dropping it near our own troops. Japan would have been a bloody nightmare to invade, with an uncertain conclusion.

                    "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

                    taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply 4 Aug 2023, 01:13
                    • J Jolly
                      24 Jul 2023, 03:47

                      Since Japan started WW2, I guess it's only fitting they were the recipient of the most powerful weapon used during the war.

                      G Offline
                      G Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 11:31 last edited by
                      #12

                      @Jolly said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

                      Since Japan started WW2

                      Some will say that Hitler's invasion of Poland was the official start of WWII. Two days after that invasion, France and Britain declared war.

                      One could say that Japan's invasion of Manchuria in 1931 was a precursor, however.

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • M Away
                        M Away
                        Mik
                        wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 11:34 last edited by Mik
                        #13

                        I think he meant Pearl Harbor and the start of US military involvement, but I get your point.

                        "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • J Offline
                          J Offline
                          Jolly
                          wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 12:38 last edited by
                          #14

                          No, he meant Manchuria. 😊

                          After WW1, Japan experienced a population explosion and an industrial surge. Led primarily by the military in a nominal democracy that also had an emporor (that's complicated), the resource poor country decided to take those resources from the Chinese. The Japanese Empire expansion began.

                          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                          G 1 Reply Last reply 24 Jul 2023, 12:40
                          • J Jolly
                            24 Jul 2023, 12:38

                            No, he meant Manchuria. 😊

                            After WW1, Japan experienced a population explosion and an industrial surge. Led primarily by the military in a nominal democracy that also had an emporor (that's complicated), the resource poor country decided to take those resources from the Chinese. The Japanese Empire expansion began.

                            G Offline
                            G Offline
                            George K
                            wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 12:40 last edited by
                            #15

                            @Jolly said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

                            the resource poor country decided to take those resources from the Chinese. The Japanese Empire expansion began.

                            True, however, it was really a two-nation regional conflict, no?

                            In Europe, once Poland was invaded, within 72 hours, there were at least four adversaries.

                            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                            J 1 Reply Last reply 24 Jul 2023, 12:52
                            • G George K
                              24 Jul 2023, 12:40

                              @Jolly said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

                              the resource poor country decided to take those resources from the Chinese. The Japanese Empire expansion began.

                              True, however, it was really a two-nation regional conflict, no?

                              In Europe, once Poland was invaded, within 72 hours, there were at least four adversaries.

                              J Offline
                              J Offline
                              Jolly
                              wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 12:52 last edited by
                              #16

                              @George-K said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

                              @Jolly said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

                              the resource poor country decided to take those resources from the Chinese. The Japanese Empire expansion began.

                              True, however, it was really a two-nation regional conflict, no?

                              In Europe, once Poland was invaded, within 72 hours, there were at least four adversaries.

                              Roosevelt didn't care for the Japanese or their motives. By 1937, the New Deal was playing out and Roosevelt, as many presidents do, became more involved in foreign policy. The screws started to turn on the Japanese. Restrictions of trade, particularly oil and steel, talk of a naval blockade, breaking off negotiations with the Japanese...All were part of the effort.

                              We knew what we were doing. As Stimson wrote in his diary, The question was how we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves.

                              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • M Away
                                M Away
                                Mik
                                wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 12:55 last edited by
                                #17

                                Sounds something like Russia-Ukraine. I’ve long suspected we wanted them to invade.

                                "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • M Mik
                                  24 Jul 2023, 02:36

                                  By the time it was developed there was nothing left in Germany to drop it on.

                                  C Offline
                                  C Offline
                                  Copper
                                  wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 13:06 last edited by
                                  #18

                                  @Mik said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

                                  By the time it was developed there was nothing left in Germany to drop it on.

                                  Except, of course, the Russians.

                                  M J 2 Replies Last reply 24 Jul 2023, 13:11
                                  • C Copper
                                    24 Jul 2023, 13:06

                                    @Mik said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

                                    By the time it was developed there was nothing left in Germany to drop it on.

                                    Except, of course, the Russians.

                                    M Away
                                    M Away
                                    Mik
                                    wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 13:11 last edited by
                                    #19

                                    @Copper Well, there is them.

                                    "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • C Copper
                                      24 Jul 2023, 13:06

                                      @Mik said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

                                      By the time it was developed there was nothing left in Germany to drop it on.

                                      Except, of course, the Russians.

                                      J Offline
                                      J Offline
                                      Jolly
                                      wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 16:09 last edited by
                                      #20

                                      @Copper said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

                                      @Mik said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

                                      By the time it was developed there was nothing left in Germany to drop it on.

                                      Except, of course, the Russians.

                                      Channeling Patton, are we? 😃

                                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • J Offline
                                        J Offline
                                        Jolly
                                        wrote on 24 Jul 2023, 16:11 last edited by
                                        #21

                                        For some interesting history, do a little reading on Churchill 's naughty document...

                                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • M Mik
                                          24 Jul 2023, 10:28

                                          @Axtremus said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

                                          @Mik said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

                                          By the time it was developed there was nothing left in Germany to drop it on.

                                          How so? What metrics do you use to come up with the judgement that says Japan still had assets worth bombing but Germany did not?

                                          For starters the first atomic bomb was not ready before July 45, three months after Germany surrendered. The Allies all had troops in Germany, so we'd have been dropping it near our own troops. Japan would have been a bloody nightmare to invade, with an uncertain conclusion.

                                          taiwan_girlT Offline
                                          taiwan_girlT Offline
                                          taiwan_girl
                                          wrote on 4 Aug 2023, 01:13 last edited by
                                          #22

                                          @Mik said in What if the US had developed, but not used the atomic bombs?:

                                          Japan would have been a bloody nightmare to invade, with an uncertain conclusion.

                                          This.

                                          I read an article about the estimated cost in lifes (on both sides) if the US would have NOT used the atom bomb and would have done a traditional land invasion. It would have been much much much higher than the loss from the atom bombs.

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