Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come."

[jon-nyc]

@Horace said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

I prefer my solutions to take into consideration practicalities such as the fact that the virus wasn't going to be entirely defeated by a shelter in place. Somehow it seems that that magical thinking was always somewhere under the surface of all the discussions though.

See Hammer and Dance. Lockdown measures were supposed to be used to get new case #s down to a number that would be manageable with test and trace. Numerous countries have done this successfully, at least so far. NY is giving it a real try.

I hope we spent the time preparing for the second wave. As much fun as it is making fun of all hte idiots who are totally to blame for the fact that we have a problem with COVID, I don't think anybody should have ever been doing any planning under the assumption that such people would not exist.

I don't know how much was done. I don't get the feeling much was done at the national supply chain level. Like, did we create a meaningful PPE manufacturing capacity? Or are we going to be competing with the rest of the world for Chinese supplies still?

Most levels of government began acting as if this was behind us by May 1 or so.

[xenon]

Key question for me is - what’s working in other countries that isn’t working for the U.S.?

Many seem to have this thing under control.

[jon-nyc]

More social cohesion. Less distrust of the scientific community. More competent leadership. Greater state capacity.

[Horace]

I was driving through Oakland this morning and a big billboard read "Dying from COVID is not Black people's fault". I think it was an advertisement for a health care provider.

[jon-nyc]

It's a dog whistle for blaming Asians.

[Horace]

It is certainly messaging which presupposes fertile psyches for blaming others.

[Loki]

@jon-nyc said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

More social cohesion. Less distrust of the scientific community. More competent leadership. Greater state capacity.

Yeah, every now and then autocracy, monoculture and socialism has a leg up. Maybe we should have been that way all long.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Loki said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

@jon-nyc said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

More social cohesion. Less distrust of the scientific community. More competent leadership. Greater state capacity.

Yeah, every now and then autocracy, monoculture and socialism has a leg up.

Is that how you'd characterize New Zealand?

[Horace]

Islands have a leg up too.

[Horace]

I think everybody needs to be like a peeing dog and have a leg up.

[Loki]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

@Loki said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

@jon-nyc said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

More social cohesion. Less distrust of the scientific community. More competent leadership. Greater state capacity.

Yeah, every now and then autocracy, monoculture and socialism has a leg up.

Is that how you'd characterize New Zealand?

Monoculture. Island.

[taiwan_girl]

@jon-nyc said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

More social cohesion. Less distrust of the scientific community. More competent leadership. Greater state capacity.

Exactly. Using Taiwan as an example, this almost exactly describes our approach.

The first thing you mention is a big one. Sometimes, the good of society has to come first. If that means wearing a mask, putting an app on your phone to allow tracing, etc so be it.

[Copper]

What is this society thing you are talking about?

The state?

[Doctor Phibes]

@Loki said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

@Doctor-Phibes said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

@Loki said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

@jon-nyc said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

More social cohesion. Less distrust of the scientific community. More competent leadership. Greater state capacity.

Yeah, every now and then autocracy, monoculture and socialism has a leg up.

Is that how you'd characterize New Zealand?

Monoculture. Island.

I don't think New Zealand is a monoculture.

Scotland certainly isn't, and they've done a lot better dealing with Covid than either the US or England. It isn't an autocracy or socialist, either.

[Horace]

Maybe most other societies are like family that fights a lot but pulls together when they have to. Maybe Americans really do hate each other as only people who don't really know each other can.

[taiwan_girl]

@Copper said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

What is this society thing you are talking about?

The state?

I dont think it is a state exactly, but more the group of people that live in that state - not sure if I am explaining it, but there is a difference.

For example, with mask wearing

USA person - "wearing a mask is an individual choice. No one is going to take my choice away from me! It is infringe on my right!!!!!"

Taiwan person - "Wearing a mask will help all the people in the country. I will endure a bit of personal discomfort so that in the short term and long term, we are all better off"

[Copper]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

@Loki said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

@Doctor-Phibes said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

@Loki said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

@jon-nyc said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

More social cohesion. Less distrust of the scientific community. More competent leadership. Greater state capacity.

Yeah, every now and then autocracy, monoculture and socialism has a leg up.

Is that how you'd characterize New Zealand?

Monoculture. Island.

I don't think New Zealand is a monoculture.

Scotland certainly isn't, and they've done a lot better dealing with Covid than either the US or England. It isn't an autocracy or socialist, either.

New Zealand and Scotland both have populations smaller than Virginia.

[Rainman]

@Horace said in Oh good! WHO: "The worst is yet to come.":

Maybe most other societies are like family that fights a lot but pulls together when they have to. Maybe Americans really do hate each other as only people who don't really know each other can.

I dunno, Horace. I hope you're wrong. Love thy neighbor, and all that.
How many thugs spout "I know my (individual) rights!" as soon as a cop does anything. I included the "individual" in quotation marks to make a point: Individual rights are in our DNA. Some people use it as a hammer, some, I suppose, believe they are making some higher point.

The difference still is, in part, individualism of the West, vs. collective good in the East.

But then again, the first phase of closedown was most of the nation agreeing to do something without screaming about rights. We just did it, out of fear.

Then everything, as if on cue, turned into another political game.

Now there might be another swine flu on the horizon. Just when I thought things can't get much worse. Bad time to be a hog in China. Or pig. Or piglet. Days may be numbered.