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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Equity and a whole lot more.

Equity and a whole lot more.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
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  • HoraceH Offline
    HoraceH Offline
    Horace
    wrote on last edited by
    #24

    If IQ was negatively correlated with other sufficiently important things that impact chances of measurable success, then IQ wouldn't be positively correlated with measurable success. These conversations inevitably devolve to anecdote, which in turn inevitably are making fun of "smart" people.

    Education is extremely important.

    Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
    • CopperC Offline
      CopperC Offline
      Copper
      wrote on last edited by
      #25

      da701c7a-ae11-4cf8-8880-4878853866a6-image.png

      https://www.tamdistrict.org/cms/lib/CA01000875/Centricity/Domain/539/Presidential IQ scores 1.pdf

      3 are missing from the above, here are estimates from elsewhere

      https://www.ranker.com/list/us-presidents-by-iq/lauren-slocum

      Trump 145
      Obama 155

      https://iqtestprep.com/joe-bidens-iq-score/

      Biden 115

      1 Reply Last reply
      • Doctor PhibesD Online
        Doctor PhibesD Online
        Doctor Phibes
        wrote on last edited by
        #26

        I've estimated my IQ as being about 175, which explains why I'll never be President.

        I was only joking

        1 Reply Last reply
        • HoraceH Horace

          If IQ was negatively correlated with other sufficiently important things that impact chances of measurable success, then IQ wouldn't be positively correlated with measurable success. These conversations inevitably devolve to anecdote, which in turn inevitably are making fun of "smart" people.

          Aqua LetiferA Offline
          Aqua LetiferA Offline
          Aqua Letifer
          wrote on last edited by Aqua Letifer
          #27

          @Horace said in Equity and a whole lot more.:

          If IQ was negatively correlated with other sufficiently important things that impact chances of measurable success, then IQ wouldn't be positively correlated with measurable success. These conversations inevitably devolve to anecdote, which in turn inevitably are making fun of "smart" people.

          I suppose guidance counselors, career coaches, performance reviews, and top 10 employment articles the world over are in on the woke conspiracy to emphasize soft skills. Because everyone knows if you have no self awareness or are a total bastard, the world still just gives you things if you show them your Mensa card.

          There are indeed negative correlations with high IQ in terms of measurable success. For starters, there's a threshold at which IQ differences start to create a communication problem for those with the higher IQ.

          Please love yourself.

          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
          • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

            @Horace said in Equity and a whole lot more.:

            If IQ was negatively correlated with other sufficiently important things that impact chances of measurable success, then IQ wouldn't be positively correlated with measurable success. These conversations inevitably devolve to anecdote, which in turn inevitably are making fun of "smart" people.

            I suppose guidance counselors, career coaches, performance reviews, and top 10 employment articles the world over are in on the woke conspiracy to emphasize soft skills. Because everyone knows if you have no self awareness or are a total bastard, the world still just gives you things if you show them your Mensa card.

            There are indeed negative correlations with high IQ in terms of measurable success. For starters, there's a threshold at which IQ differences start to create a communication problem for those with the higher IQ.

            HoraceH Offline
            HoraceH Offline
            Horace
            wrote on last edited by Horace
            #28

            @Aqua-Letifer said in Equity and a whole lot more.:

            @Horace said in Equity and a whole lot more.:

            If IQ was negatively correlated with other sufficiently important things that impact chances of measurable success, then IQ wouldn't be positively correlated with measurable success. These conversations inevitably devolve to anecdote, which in turn inevitably are making fun of "smart" people.

            I suppose guidance counselors, career coaches, performance reviews, and top 10 employment articles the world over are in on the woke conspiracy to emphasize soft skills. Because everyone knows if you have no self awareness or are a total bastard, the world still just gives you things if you show them your Mensa card.

            There are indeed negative correlations with high IQ in terms of measurable success. For starters, there's a threshold at which IQ differences start to create a communication problem for those with the higher IQ.

            Well you continue to argue against the idea that IQ explains everything, but that's an idea nobody holds.

            It makes perfect sense to concentrate on improving skills that one can train and improve. I have no issue with those conspirators emphasizing the development of things other than IQ.

            One of the reasons IQ is so third rail, is that we've long since established that it's not trainable. So then what, if it remains so important statistically, and if it remains different between groups we care about? Well, we see then what. We third rail it, and substitute politically expedient (and leftist/marxist) explanations for the differences that by all data, it can be demonstrated to account for.

            Education is extremely important.

            Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
            • HoraceH Offline
              HoraceH Offline
              Horace
              wrote on last edited by
              #29

              There's a simple analogy that gets to the point about why IQ matters to group differences, and why it's not everything. If measurable success is the sum of 10 dice, and one of those 10 dice is loaded to produce a higher result for one group as compared to another, then the sum of the 10 dice will be different on average for one group than the other. The other nine dice can freely roll around as dice do. Any individual sum can't be counted on to be higher in one group than the other. But if we care deeply about average differences, which are inevitable in the presence of a loaded die, then we should care about that loaded die, and we should care about being honest about why it's loaded. Especially when the dishonest explanations are socially destructive.

              Education is extremely important.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • HoraceH Horace

                @Aqua-Letifer said in Equity and a whole lot more.:

                @Horace said in Equity and a whole lot more.:

                If IQ was negatively correlated with other sufficiently important things that impact chances of measurable success, then IQ wouldn't be positively correlated with measurable success. These conversations inevitably devolve to anecdote, which in turn inevitably are making fun of "smart" people.

                I suppose guidance counselors, career coaches, performance reviews, and top 10 employment articles the world over are in on the woke conspiracy to emphasize soft skills. Because everyone knows if you have no self awareness or are a total bastard, the world still just gives you things if you show them your Mensa card.

                There are indeed negative correlations with high IQ in terms of measurable success. For starters, there's a threshold at which IQ differences start to create a communication problem for those with the higher IQ.

                Well you continue to argue against the idea that IQ explains everything, but that's an idea nobody holds.

                It makes perfect sense to concentrate on improving skills that one can train and improve. I have no issue with those conspirators emphasizing the development of things other than IQ.

                One of the reasons IQ is so third rail, is that we've long since established that it's not trainable. So then what, if it remains so important statistically, and if it remains different between groups we care about? Well, we see then what. We third rail it, and substitute politically expedient (and leftist/marxist) explanations for the differences that by all data, it can be demonstrated to account for.

                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                Aqua Letifer
                wrote on last edited by
                #30

                @Horace said in Equity and a whole lot more.:

                One of the reasons IQ is so third rail, is that we've long since established that it's not trainable. So then what, if it remains so important statistically, and if it remains different between groups we care about? Well, we see then what.

                I don't think we will, actually. AI's only a few years out from making this problem irrelevant by comparison.

                Please love yourself.

                HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                  @Horace said in Equity and a whole lot more.:

                  One of the reasons IQ is so third rail, is that we've long since established that it's not trainable. So then what, if it remains so important statistically, and if it remains different between groups we care about? Well, we see then what.

                  I don't think we will, actually. AI's only a few years out from making this problem irrelevant by comparison.

                  HoraceH Offline
                  HoraceH Offline
                  Horace
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #31

                  @Aqua-Letifer said in Equity and a whole lot more.:

                  @Horace said in Equity and a whole lot more.:

                  One of the reasons IQ is so third rail, is that we've long since established that it's not trainable. So then what, if it remains so important statistically, and if it remains different between groups we care about? Well, we see then what.

                  I don't think we will, actually. AI's only a few years out from making this problem irrelevant by comparison.

                  As long as there is a semblance of freedom and social mobility, the smarter people will figure out a way to get ahead in that culture, too. Because I doubt even social skills are negatively correlated with IQ.

                  Education is extremely important.

                  Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                  • HoraceH Horace

                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Equity and a whole lot more.:

                    @Horace said in Equity and a whole lot more.:

                    One of the reasons IQ is so third rail, is that we've long since established that it's not trainable. So then what, if it remains so important statistically, and if it remains different between groups we care about? Well, we see then what.

                    I don't think we will, actually. AI's only a few years out from making this problem irrelevant by comparison.

                    As long as there is a semblance of freedom and social mobility, the smarter people will figure out a way to get ahead in that culture, too. Because I doubt even social skills are negatively correlated with IQ.

                    Aqua LetiferA Offline
                    Aqua LetiferA Offline
                    Aqua Letifer
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #32

                    @Horace said in Equity and a whole lot more.:

                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Equity and a whole lot more.:

                    @Horace said in Equity and a whole lot more.:

                    One of the reasons IQ is so third rail, is that we've long since established that it's not trainable. So then what, if it remains so important statistically, and if it remains different between groups we care about? Well, we see then what.

                    I don't think we will, actually. AI's only a few years out from making this problem irrelevant by comparison.

                    As long as there is a semblance of freedom and social mobility

                    Based on the trajectory of the technology and our total incompetence when it comes to planning for that, I'm not at all convinced there will be.

                    Please love yourself.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                      I found it impressive enough to try listening to Lindsay’s podcast. It was supposed to be about how to attack the movement, but the first 20 minutes were a very bad attempt at trying to explain the Chinese 5 Element Cycle of Creation and Consumption. It went downhill from there. I will try a different podcast and listen to some of his other interviews and debates. But I was EXTREMELY impressed with his citations and the logical and clearly educated and well thought out description of woke idealogy. It reminds me of the Peterson video discussing the Disney executive and deconstruction of the trans movement. Those arguments are the ones we need to get out to the world.

                      JonJ Offline
                      JonJ Offline
                      Jon
                      wrote on last edited by Jon
                      #33

                      @LuFins-Dad

                      He has a very well-done dictionary of wokeness called New Discourses: Translations from the Wokish. New Discourses is a good follow on twitter (much better than James himself, whom I unfollowed a few years ago).

                      The entire dictionary is available on newdoscourses.com.

                      Random sample entry here:

                      https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-cisnormativity/

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • Doctor PhibesD Online
                        Doctor PhibesD Online
                        Doctor Phibes
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #34

                        You know the best way to increase your IQ?

                        Do lots of IQ tests. D’uh.

                        Probably not the best route to being more successful, however.

                        I was only joking

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