Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?
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@George-K said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
Assuming Justice Thomas received one-third of the sale price (or any amount more than $1,000), the text of the federal financial-disclosure statute would require him to have reported the transaction in Part VII (“Investments and Trusts”) of his annual AO-10 form for 2014. He didn’t do so and may need to file an amended form.
But my review of Justice Thomas’s disclosures and other documents convinces me that any failure to disclose was an honest mistake.Okay, an honest mistake, and it probably is.
However, If I was audit by the IRS, is telling them it was an "honest mistake" a good defense?
For someone in his position, and if he has as much money (or his wife has as much as said), he should have personnel that are checking this. And then he should have a second set which double checks it.
I have been involved in preparing contracts/white papers, etc. Each of them go through multiple people checking them. Is everything 100% okay by all parties? And then it will get a final review by the Ministry of Law.
He is one of the top judges in the US. All about appearances.
@taiwan_girl said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
Okay, an honest mistake, and it probably is.
However, If I was audit by the IRS, is telling them it was an "honest mistake" a good defense?
No, Is it bad enough for you to lose your job?
For someone in his position, and if he has as much money (or his wife has as much as said), he should have personnel that are checking this.
How many accountants does one need for one's taxes? If you need more than one, perhaps you've hired the wrong one to begin with.
All about appearances.
And the shaping thereof.
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@George-K said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
Assuming Justice Thomas received one-third of the sale price (or any amount more than $1,000), the text of the federal financial-disclosure statute would require him to have reported the transaction in Part VII (“Investments and Trusts”) of his annual AO-10 form for 2014. He didn’t do so and may need to file an amended form.
But my review of Justice Thomas’s disclosures and other documents convinces me that any failure to disclose was an honest mistake.Okay, an honest mistake, and it probably is.
However, If I was audit by the IRS, is telling them it was an "honest mistake" a good defense?
For someone in his position, and if he has as much money (or his wife has as much as said), he should have personnel that are checking this. And then he should have a second set which double checks it.
I have been involved in preparing contracts/white papers, etc. Each of them go through multiple people checking them. Is everything 100% okay by all parties? And then it will get a final review by the Ministry of Law.
He is one of the top judges in the US. All about appearances.
@taiwan_girl said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
@George-K said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
Assuming Justice Thomas received one-third of the sale price (or any amount more than $1,000), the text of the federal financial-disclosure statute would require him to have reported the transaction in Part VII (“Investments and Trusts”) of his annual AO-10 form for 2014. He didn’t do so and may need to file an amended form.
But my review of Justice Thomas’s disclosures and other documents convinces me that any failure to disclose was an honest mistake.Okay, an honest mistake, and it probably is.
However, If I was audit by the IRS, is telling them it was an "honest mistake" a good defense?
For someone in his position, and if he has as much money (or his wife has as much as said), he should have personnel that are checking this. And then he should have a second set which double checks it.
I have been involved in preparing contracts/white papers, etc. Each of them go through multiple people checking them. Is everything 100% okay by all parties? And then it will get a final review by the Ministry of Law.
He is one of the top judges in the US. All about appearances.
But the answer is he just needs to file an amended return. This story is even more of a nothingburger than the selling of the house and lots.
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And the beat goes on.
"Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas reported receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars of rental income from a real estate company since it dissolved more than a decade ago in 2006, according to The Washington Post.
The firm, Ginger Limited Partnership, was created in 1982 by his wife Ginni Thomas and her relatives, WaPo reported. Ginni, her parents, and her three siblings were partners at the firm, according to the report.
The company dissolved in 2006, and state records show a new firm was created the same year under a similar name, Ginger Holdings, LLC. But since then, Thomas reported receiving a total of $270,000 to $750,000 from the defunct firm, records reviewed by WaPo showed. The exact amounts are unknown because the disclosure forms only ask for a range to be reported."
I believe that this one is a whole lot of "nothing". I am guessing that the name of the company changed and he did not change it on his reporting forms.
BUT, Judge Thomas is one of the top judges in the US........... Is ignorance an excuse?
@taiwan_girl said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
And the beat goes on.
"Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas reported receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars of rental income from a real estate company since it dissolved more than a decade ago in 2006, according to The Washington Post.
The firm, Ginger Limited Partnership, was created in 1982 by his wife Ginni Thomas and her relatives, WaPo reported. Ginni, her parents, and her three siblings were partners at the firm, according to the report.
The company dissolved in 2006, and state records show a new firm was created the same year under a similar name, Ginger Holdings, LLC. But since then, Thomas reported receiving a total of $270,000 to $750,000 from the defunct firm, records reviewed by WaPo showed. The exact amounts are unknown because the disclosure forms only ask for a range to be reported."
I believe that this one is a whole lot of "nothing". I am guessing that the name of the company changed and he did not change it on his reporting forms.
BUT, Judge Thomas is one of the top judges in the US........... Is ignorance an excuse?
Do you honestly believe Thomas does his own taxes? Please.
But...if you believe it's a nothing, why did you post it? Jolly is right. This does not even rise to the standard of yellow journalism. It's propaganda, pure and simple.
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You guys make good points. The reason I posted it is because of his position. Rightly or not, someone like him is held to a higher standard.
If Judge Thomas's tax people/accountants/form submittal people are making these mistakes, then yes, he needs to hire someone else. But ultimately, I am sure he is signing the form himself, whether or not he prepared it. "The Buck Stops Here"
There are a jillion threads on this forum board where an action by a public figure (for example President Biden) is posted (and I have done that before also) that if it were an ordinary person, nobody would give it a second glance. "President Biden did this!!! OMG." "President Trump did that! OMG"
For example, if I am a fence repairman, and I do something wrong (drunk drive, shoplift, pay off a porn actress, LOL), there would be no consequence to my job, nor would it even make the news..
If I am a public official and do the same thing, there would be a good possible chance I would either resign or ask to resign.
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You guys make good points. The reason I posted it is because of his position. Rightly or not, someone like him is held to a higher standard.
If Judge Thomas's tax people/accountants/form submittal people are making these mistakes, then yes, he needs to hire someone else. But ultimately, I am sure he is signing the form himself, whether or not he prepared it. "The Buck Stops Here"
There are a jillion threads on this forum board where an action by a public figure (for example President Biden) is posted (and I have done that before also) that if it were an ordinary person, nobody would give it a second glance. "President Biden did this!!! OMG." "President Trump did that! OMG"
For example, if I am a fence repairman, and I do something wrong (drunk drive, shoplift, pay off a porn actress, LOL), there would be no consequence to my job, nor would it even make the news..
If I am a public official and do the same thing, there would be a good possible chance I would either resign or ask to resign.
@taiwan_girl said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
You guys make good points. The reason I posted it is because of his position. Rightly or not, someone like him is held to a higher standard.
If Judge Thomas's tax people/accountants/form submittal people are making these mistakes, then yes, he needs to hire someone else. But ultimately, I am sure he is signing the form himself, whether or not he prepared it. "The Buck Stops Here"
There are a jillion threads on this forum board where an action by a public figure (for example President Biden) is posted (and I have done that before also) that if it were an ordinary person, nobody would give it a second glance. "President Biden did this!!! OMG." "President Trump did that! OMG"
For example, if I am a fence repairman, and I do something wrong (drunk drive, shoplift, pay off a porn actress, LOL), there would be no consequence to my job, nor would it even make the news..
If I am a public official and do the same thing, there would be a good possible chance I would either resign or ask to resign.
But you miss the point - all of these stories are slanted, un-researched horsecrap with only a political aim. It's not journalism, it's partisan attacks. There's just nothing there in any of these stories.
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I've been through an audit, where we had to take everything with us downtown and spend the entire day answering questions. Our accountant at the time refused to go with us, and TG you are correct, the "buck stops here" (me), and not with the accountant.
And yes, the IRS agent can let things slide if she wants to, it comes down to how the interaction is going and how well questions are answered and most importantly, what documentation you provide. The IRS agent can find things in anyone's tax return, there is no way anyone is going to go through an audit without there being one thing or another denied.
I ended up writing a check for $4,000 at the end of the day. It could have been more, or maybe less. That person is very powerful, it's best to get along well as the IRS can make life very miserable. And Thomas is way up the ladder where he's being used, or will be used, as much as they can. -
Never been audited, but I've gotten a couple of letters over the years. I didn't even quibble, just paid them with a smile.
The IRS is the only agency I know that can seize everything you have without going before a judge. Couple that with byzantine tax laws and there is no such thing as a clean audit. Not if they don't want it to be.
The biggest question between you and your accountant is how aggressive do you wish your accountant to be? I always figure let's be aggressive within the law and pay for any mistakes as discovered.
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It's pretty hard to get charged with anything. You don't always have to be right, but you have to have a position as to why something is deductible.
That knowledge comes from having accountants as friends. I've never been audited, although I've always been in the sweet spot for getting one - self-employed and income of a certain amount. I have had things questioned in letters but have always prevailed.
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https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-crow-private-school-tuition-scotus
Harlan Crow also paid for Clarance Thomas' grandson's private school tuition. Though the child is Thomas' biological grandson, Thomas has taken custody of the child at the time and had publicly stated that he was raising the child as a son.
Personally, I think it's perfectly cool that a grandparent raises a grandchild when the parents cannot.
Maybe they do subscribe to some version of Biden's saying that "there is no such thing as someone else's child."
C'mon, @LuFins-Dad and @Jolly, tell me it's OK and not out of the ordinary, short of officially winning a scholarship or qualifying for financial aid, for a U.S. judge to let non-family pays for his (grand)child's private school tuition.
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Pop quiz: Which of these two Justices didn't recuse him/her self in a case involving an entity that he/she profited from?
Justice Sonia Sotomayor declined to recuse herself from multiple copyright infringement cases involving book publisher Penguin Random House despite having been paid millions by the firm for her books, making it by far her largest source of income, records show.
In 2010, she got a $1.2 million book advance from Knopf Doubleday Group, a part of the conglomerate. In 2012, she reported receiving two advance payments from the publisher totaling $1.9 million.
In 2013, Sotomayor voted in a decision for whether the court should hear a case against the publisher called Aaron Greenspan v. Random House, despite then-fellow Justice Stephen Breyer recusing after also receiving money from the publisher. Greenspan was a Harvard classmate of Mark Zuckerberg’s who wrote a book about the founding of Facebook and contended that Random House rejected his book proposal and then awarded a deal to another author who copied his book and eventually turned it into the movie The Social Network.
In 2017, Sotomayor began receiving payments each year from Penguin Random House itself, which continued annually through at least 2021, the most recent disclosure available, and totaled more than $500,000. In all, she received $3.6 million from Penguin Random House or its subsidiaries, according to a Daily Wire tally of financial disclosures.
In October 2019, children’s author Jennie Nicassio petitioned the Supreme Court to hear her lawsuit against Penguin Random House alleging that the book publisher had copied her book by selling one that was nearly identical. On the same day that the petition was distributed to the justices, Sotomayor received a $10,586 check from the publisher.
On February 24, 2020, the Supreme Court voted not to hear the case, denying the “writ of certiorari” and meaning that the case would remain where it left off — with a circuit court having found in the publisher’s favor. Sotomayor’s next check, coming in May of that year, was her largest ever from the parent company, at $82,807.
The Supreme Court does not reveal how individual justices vote when it comes to “cert,” but it does note when they recuse, which Sotomayor did not. Her decision not to recuse is particularly notable because Breyer again recused. Breyer received payments from Penguin Random House or Knopf each year, which he seemingly viewed as a conflict, even though he received only a tenth of the amount — $340,000 during the same time period — as Sotomayor (Breyer’s wife also wrote a book for the company).In 2017, Sotomayor began receiving payments each year from Penguin Random House itself, which continued annually through at least 2021, the most recent disclosure available, and totaled more than $500,000. In all, she received $3.6 million from Penguin Random House or its subsidiaries, according to a Daily Wire tally of financial disclosures.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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Pop quiz: Which of these two Justices didn't recuse him/her self in a case involving an entity that he/she profited from?
Justice Sonia Sotomayor declined to recuse herself from multiple copyright infringement cases involving book publisher Penguin Random House despite having been paid millions by the firm for her books, making it by far her largest source of income, records show.
In 2010, she got a $1.2 million book advance from Knopf Doubleday Group, a part of the conglomerate. In 2012, she reported receiving two advance payments from the publisher totaling $1.9 million.
In 2013, Sotomayor voted in a decision for whether the court should hear a case against the publisher called Aaron Greenspan v. Random House, despite then-fellow Justice Stephen Breyer recusing after also receiving money from the publisher. Greenspan was a Harvard classmate of Mark Zuckerberg’s who wrote a book about the founding of Facebook and contended that Random House rejected his book proposal and then awarded a deal to another author who copied his book and eventually turned it into the movie The Social Network.
In 2017, Sotomayor began receiving payments each year from Penguin Random House itself, which continued annually through at least 2021, the most recent disclosure available, and totaled more than $500,000. In all, she received $3.6 million from Penguin Random House or its subsidiaries, according to a Daily Wire tally of financial disclosures.
In October 2019, children’s author Jennie Nicassio petitioned the Supreme Court to hear her lawsuit against Penguin Random House alleging that the book publisher had copied her book by selling one that was nearly identical. On the same day that the petition was distributed to the justices, Sotomayor received a $10,586 check from the publisher.
On February 24, 2020, the Supreme Court voted not to hear the case, denying the “writ of certiorari” and meaning that the case would remain where it left off — with a circuit court having found in the publisher’s favor. Sotomayor’s next check, coming in May of that year, was her largest ever from the parent company, at $82,807.
The Supreme Court does not reveal how individual justices vote when it comes to “cert,” but it does note when they recuse, which Sotomayor did not. Her decision not to recuse is particularly notable because Breyer again recused. Breyer received payments from Penguin Random House or Knopf each year, which he seemingly viewed as a conflict, even though he received only a tenth of the amount — $340,000 during the same time period — as Sotomayor (Breyer’s wife also wrote a book for the company).In 2017, Sotomayor began receiving payments each year from Penguin Random House itself, which continued annually through at least 2021, the most recent disclosure available, and totaled more than $500,000. In all, she received $3.6 million from Penguin Random House or its subsidiaries, according to a Daily Wire tally of financial disclosures.
@George-K said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
In 2017, Sotomayor began receiving payments each year from Penguin Random House itself, which continued annually through at least 2021, the most recent disclosure available, and totaled more than $500,000. In all, she received $3.6 million from Penguin Random House or its subsidiaries, according to a Daily Wire tally of financial disclosures.
Oh, how nice of her to DISCLOSE how much money she gets and from where she gets her money.
Say, @George-K, was that a new article or something recently published? Did any one raise any complain at the time? It's not something being brought up just to distract the attention from Thomas, is it?
In any case, someone compiles a list of instances where justices should have recused themselves but did not: https://fixthecourt.com/2023/05/recent-times-justice-failed-recuse-despite-clear-conflict-interest/
Pretty much every current SCOTUS justice is cited except maybe Kavanaugh. Have fun looking it over.
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@George-K said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
In 2017, Sotomayor began receiving payments each year from Penguin Random House itself, which continued annually through at least 2021, the most recent disclosure available, and totaled more than $500,000. In all, she received $3.6 million from Penguin Random House or its subsidiaries, according to a Daily Wire tally of financial disclosures.
Oh, how nice of her to DISCLOSE how much money she gets and from where she gets her money.
Say, @George-K, was that a new article or something recently published? Did any one raise any complain at the time? It's not something being brought up just to distract the attention from Thomas, is it?
In any case, someone compiles a list of instances where justices should have recused themselves but did not: https://fixthecourt.com/2023/05/recent-times-justice-failed-recuse-despite-clear-conflict-interest/
Pretty much every current SCOTUS justice is cited except maybe Kavanaugh. Have fun looking it over.
@Axtremus said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
Oh, how nice of her to DISCLOSE how much money she gets and from where she gets her money.
Because it was required by the rules of the court. She followed the rules.
Thomas's trips with Crow were not disclosed because, at the time, it was not required by the rules.
I admire both Justices for adhering to the standards established by the court.
ETA:
list of instances where justices should have recused themselves but did not
Yes, and that list doesn't list anything about Harlan Crow, but confirms the story about Sotomayor.
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@Axtremus said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
Oh, how nice of her to DISCLOSE how much money she gets and from where she gets her money.
Because it was required by the rules of the court. She followed the rules.
Thomas's trips with Crow were not disclosed because, at the time, it was not required by the rules.
I admire both Justices for adhering to the standards established by the court.
ETA:
list of instances where justices should have recused themselves but did not
Yes, and that list doesn't list anything about Harlan Crow, but confirms the story about Sotomayor.
@George-K said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
Yes, and that list doesn't list anything about Harlan Crow, but confirms the story about Sotomayor.
Thomas’ case is a developing story, we do not know how quickly that list gets updated.
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@George-K said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
Yes, and that list doesn't list anything about Harlan Crow, but confirms the story about Sotomayor.
Thomas’ case is a developing story, we do not know how quickly that list gets updated.
@Axtremus said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
@George-K said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
Yes, and that list doesn't list anything about Harlan Crow, but confirms the story about Sotomayor.
Thomas’ case is a developing story, we do not know how quickly that list gets updated.
Dance, monkey. Dance.
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@Axtremus said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
@George-K said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
Yes, and that list doesn't list anything about Harlan Crow, but confirms the story about Sotomayor.
Thomas’ case is a developing story, we do not know how quickly that list gets updated.
Dance, monkey. Dance.
Hey @Jolly,
https://nodebb.the-new-coffee-room.club/post/217506
…
C'mon, @LuFins-Dad and @Jolly, tell me it's OK and not out of the ordinary, short of officially winning a scholarship or qualifying for financial aid, for a U.S. judge to let non-family pays for his (grand)child's private school tuition. -
As one of our very astute members have say before, It's about appearances.
I fail to see how anyone can excuse what they have done and think it is okay.
I could understand someone with a grade 5 education with no support team forgetting to check a box on a form.
It is another thing for Supreme Court judges to do it. As Dr. Phibes (I believe) pointed out, they are doing things that would get them fired (or at least reprimanded) if they worked for a lot of companies.
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Pop quiz: Which of these two Justices didn't recuse him/her self in a case involving an entity that he/she profited from?
Justice Sonia Sotomayor declined to recuse herself from multiple copyright infringement cases involving book publisher Penguin Random House despite having been paid millions by the firm for her books, making it by far her largest source of income, records show.
In 2010, she got a $1.2 million book advance from Knopf Doubleday Group, a part of the conglomerate. In 2012, she reported receiving two advance payments from the publisher totaling $1.9 million.
In 2013, Sotomayor voted in a decision for whether the court should hear a case against the publisher called Aaron Greenspan v. Random House, despite then-fellow Justice Stephen Breyer recusing after also receiving money from the publisher. Greenspan was a Harvard classmate of Mark Zuckerberg’s who wrote a book about the founding of Facebook and contended that Random House rejected his book proposal and then awarded a deal to another author who copied his book and eventually turned it into the movie The Social Network.
In 2017, Sotomayor began receiving payments each year from Penguin Random House itself, which continued annually through at least 2021, the most recent disclosure available, and totaled more than $500,000. In all, she received $3.6 million from Penguin Random House or its subsidiaries, according to a Daily Wire tally of financial disclosures.
In October 2019, children’s author Jennie Nicassio petitioned the Supreme Court to hear her lawsuit against Penguin Random House alleging that the book publisher had copied her book by selling one that was nearly identical. On the same day that the petition was distributed to the justices, Sotomayor received a $10,586 check from the publisher.
On February 24, 2020, the Supreme Court voted not to hear the case, denying the “writ of certiorari” and meaning that the case would remain where it left off — with a circuit court having found in the publisher’s favor. Sotomayor’s next check, coming in May of that year, was her largest ever from the parent company, at $82,807.
The Supreme Court does not reveal how individual justices vote when it comes to “cert,” but it does note when they recuse, which Sotomayor did not. Her decision not to recuse is particularly notable because Breyer again recused. Breyer received payments from Penguin Random House or Knopf each year, which he seemingly viewed as a conflict, even though he received only a tenth of the amount — $340,000 during the same time period — as Sotomayor (Breyer’s wife also wrote a book for the company).In 2017, Sotomayor began receiving payments each year from Penguin Random House itself, which continued annually through at least 2021, the most recent disclosure available, and totaled more than $500,000. In all, she received $3.6 million from Penguin Random House or its subsidiaries, according to a Daily Wire tally of financial disclosures.
@George-K said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
Justice Sonia Sotomayor declined to recuse herself from multiple copyright infringement cases involving book publisher Penguin Random House despite having been paid millions by the firm for her books, making it by far her largest source of income, records show.
I guess that Judge Sotomayor was not alone.
"Sotomayor and Gorsuch had both signed major book deals with the publisher before the cases occurred, and both justices declined to recuse themselves from the cases involving Penguin Random House. Former Justice Stephen Breyer, who had reported receiving royalties from the publisher, recused himself from each of the cases."
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@George-K said in Did Clarence Thomas Do anything Wrong?:
Justice Sonia Sotomayor declined to recuse herself from multiple copyright infringement cases involving book publisher Penguin Random House despite having been paid millions by the firm for her books, making it by far her largest source of income, records show.
I guess that Judge Sotomayor was not alone.
"Sotomayor and Gorsuch had both signed major book deals with the publisher before the cases occurred, and both justices declined to recuse themselves from the cases involving Penguin Random House. Former Justice Stephen Breyer, who had reported receiving royalties from the publisher, recused himself from each of the cases."
@taiwan_girl that's right.
So, ask yourself, why are they piling on Thomas?
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
