Speaking of passenger rail
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@jon-nyc yup.
Long-distance assenger rail is never going to be profitable. In the late 1950s, the railroads were beginning to realize this. Hauling mail and freight was a non-starter after the rise of cheap, safe and reliable air travel. The 1977 (?) implementation of Amtrak was a godsend to the rail companies and they never looked back.
The problem is that, decades ago, poorly-serviced locations could only be reached by rail. Air travel was not available (think central Montana or North Dakota). That problem exists today. If you want to get to Havre, there are few options that are not ridicoulsly expensive.
As I've mentioned, a big problem is that today's passenger rail "leases" the right-of-way for a specific window. IOW, the freight carriers allow Amtrak to run there, but the priority is where the money is - freight. Legislation exists, and is rarely enforced, to prioritize passenger travel. But delays are always a problem. In the Northeast Corridor, where Amtrak owns the right-of-way, it's a totally different situation. Because of the relatively short distances (when compared to western routes), it's mostly profitable and on time. The Acela and Northeast Regionals do well - in terms of profitability and timely performance. The western trains, not so much.
And (rant on here) in recent years, it's gotten obscenely expensive. In 2017-18, a trip to Portland from Chicago was about $1200 for two in a sleeper. 48 hours with meals included. Today, it's doubled.
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Based on Georges recommendation, I took the train from Chicago to LA a couple of years ago. Loved it!!
But people today are in a hurry. If you only have a week off, most people dont want to spend four of those days on a train.
And as also mentioned, the cost is quite a bit higher for a train vs. a plane.
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What I don't understand...Why not mixed trains? Used to be very common. Use a couple of cars with Greyhound bus type seats and a car with vending machines and some booths. Limit the stops and don't offer the service on anything more than a 24-hr route.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Based on Georges recommendation, I took the train from Chicago to LA a couple of years ago. Loved it!!
But people today are in a hurry. If you only have a week off, most people dont want to spend four of those days on a train.
And as also mentioned, the cost is quite a bit higher for a train vs. a plane.
@taiwan_girl said in Speaking of passenger rail:
the cost is quite a bit higher for a train vs. a plane.
It depends...
I can get from downtown Chicago to downtown Milwaukee in 90 minutes for about $25. Can't do that by air. Hell, I'd burn about the much in gas if I drove.
For longer distances, one has to alter one's thinking of "travel." If the trip is part of the vacation, then it's really not unreasonable.
For example:
For two people, you get two nights' lodging (probably worth $300). You get two breakfasts, two dinners, and two lunches. That's probably another $300 for two people. You get turn-down service, and, of course, transportation.
A first class flight to Portland on April 28 is $700 or so, for two. And that's with a layover in Denver. Add in my other considerations, and you're up to $1300
So, for us, when I was working, a 9-day trip (two weekends around a 5 day week) worked out great.
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What I don't understand...Why not mixed trains? Used to be very common. Use a couple of cars with Greyhound bus type seats and a car with vending machines and some booths. Limit the stops and don't offer the service on anything more than a 24-hr route.
@Jolly said in Speaking of passenger rail:
What I don't understand...Why not mixed trains? Used to be very common. Use a couple of cars with Greyhound bus type seats and a car with vending machines and some booths. Limit the stops and don't offer the service on anything more than a 24-hr route.
That already exists. Coach class on Amtrak is far, far cheaper. You have access to the lounge car where you can get heated up hot dogs, pizza, booze, etc. But, I wouldn't ride coach on an overnight trip. No way, no how. One way ticket for 1 adult from Chicago to Portland is $162 on Sept 11. A sleeper STARTS at $1500.
When D4 and I traveled in September 2014, the entire trip, Chicago, Portland, San Francisco, Chicago was $1500 for two. Now, it's probably more than $4000.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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What I don't understand...Why not mixed trains? Used to be very common. Use a couple of cars with Greyhound bus type seats and a car with vending machines and some booths. Limit the stops and don't offer the service on anything more than a 24-hr route.
@Jolly said in Speaking of passenger rail:
What I don't understand...Why not mixed trains? Used to be very common. Use a couple of cars with Greyhound bus type seats and a car with vending machines and some booths. Limit the stops and don't offer the service on anything more than a 24-hr route.
That’s what the northeast corridor is like. And it’s cheap. Acela is more like business class on an airline.
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More than ten years ago, Taiwan opened up a high speed train between Taipei and Koahisung (north and south cities). It used to be the most air traveled route in the world (by number of scheduled flights).
It works there, but the distance is not that great. (Kaohsiung --> Taipei is about Chicago --> St. Louis). The super express trains that do not stop can do the route in about 2 hours or less.
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More than ten years ago, Taiwan opened up a high speed train between Taipei and Koahisung (north and south cities). It used to be the most air traveled route in the world (by number of scheduled flights).
It works there, but the distance is not that great. (Kaohsiung --> Taipei is about Chicago --> St. Louis). The super express trains that do not stop can do the route in about 2 hours or less.
@taiwan_girl said in Speaking of passenger rail:
It works there, but the distance is not that great. (
And that's why it works in places like Taiwan.
The US is simply too big (and too corrupt) for a national high-speed rail system. 2500 miles of HSR? C'mon, man.
It works in China because ... China. The longest trip in China is about 1400 miles.
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@Jolly said in Speaking of passenger rail:
What I don't understand...Why not mixed trains? Used to be very common. Use a couple of cars with Greyhound bus type seats and a car with vending machines and some booths. Limit the stops and don't offer the service on anything more than a 24-hr route.
That already exists. Coach class on Amtrak is far, far cheaper. You have access to the lounge car where you can get heated up hot dogs, pizza, booze, etc. But, I wouldn't ride coach on an overnight trip. No way, no how. One way ticket for 1 adult from Chicago to Portland is $162 on Sept 11. A sleeper STARTS at $1500.
When D4 and I traveled in September 2014, the entire trip, Chicago, Portland, San Francisco, Chicago was $1500 for two. Now, it's probably more than $4000.
@George-K said in Speaking of passenger rail:
@Jolly said in Speaking of passenger rail:
What I don't understand...Why not mixed trains? Used to be very common. Use a couple of cars with Greyhound bus type seats and a car with vending machines and some booths. Limit the stops and don't offer the service on anything more than a 24-hr route.
That already exists. Coach class on Amtrak is far, far cheaper. You have access to the lounge car where you can get heated up hot dogs, pizza, booze, etc. But, I wouldn't ride coach on an overnight trip. No way, no how. One way ticket for 1 adult from Chicago to Portland is $162 on Sept 11. A sleeper STARTS at $1500.
When D4 and I traveled in September 2014, the entire trip, Chicago, Portland, San Francisco, Chicago was $1500 for two. Now, it's probably more than $4000.
What about a shorter route? And remember, we're talking general public and mixed trains.
Buses still run and make money. I don't see why a train wouldn't be more profitable. New Orleans to Atlanta. Houston to Dallas or St. Louis. Chicago to Denver. Or anywhere running regular and multiple freights.
Sell the tickets online, at an automated kiosk or at WalMart.
Edit: Just checked the Grey Dog. Houston to St. Louis is $248, one-way, best fare. Surely, a mixed train is cheaper and almost as fast.
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@George-K said in Speaking of passenger rail:
@Jolly said in Speaking of passenger rail:
What I don't understand...Why not mixed trains? Used to be very common. Use a couple of cars with Greyhound bus type seats and a car with vending machines and some booths. Limit the stops and don't offer the service on anything more than a 24-hr route.
That already exists. Coach class on Amtrak is far, far cheaper. You have access to the lounge car where you can get heated up hot dogs, pizza, booze, etc. But, I wouldn't ride coach on an overnight trip. No way, no how. One way ticket for 1 adult from Chicago to Portland is $162 on Sept 11. A sleeper STARTS at $1500.
When D4 and I traveled in September 2014, the entire trip, Chicago, Portland, San Francisco, Chicago was $1500 for two. Now, it's probably more than $4000.
What about a shorter route? And remember, we're talking general public and mixed trains.
Buses still run and make money. I don't see why a train wouldn't be more profitable. New Orleans to Atlanta. Houston to Dallas or St. Louis. Chicago to Denver. Or anywhere running regular and multiple freights.
Sell the tickets online, at an automated kiosk or at WalMart.
Edit: Just checked the Grey Dog. Houston to St. Louis is $248, one-way, best fare. Surely, a mixed train is cheaper and almost as fast.
@Jolly said in Speaking of passenger rail:
Just checked the Grey Dog. Houston to St. Louis is $248, one-way, best fare.
Tomorrow:
The seats are nicer, with plenty of room to stretch out. And you can move around on the train.
But, it's overnight - in coach. ::Shudder::
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I just looked up today's cost for the trip that D4 and I took.
Depart Chicago Friday PM - arrive Portland Sunday AM - $1092
Depart Portland Tuesday PM - Arrive SF Wed AM - $596
Depart SF Friday AM - Arrive Chicago Sun PM - $1086This is for a trip in mid September, when we traveled.
5 nights on the train. 5 breakfasts, 5 dinners, 3 lunches.
In 2014 I paid $1550, about $300 a night, including meals, turn-down service, etc.
