"Make sure he dead."

[Catseye3]

It isn't opening for me, George.

[George K]

@Catseye3 looks like that tweet's been deleted.

Hang on...

Link to video

This clip doesn't show the actual gunshot.

After the victim hits the ground, face down, he's still moving. So the perp walks up and shoots him, again, in the back of the head.

[Jolly]

Culture.

But nobody wants to poke that bear...

[George K]

[Catseye3]

If the killers had been white, would you have been so quick to play the culture card?

I think it's less damaging to think of these punks as wrongo individuals rather than members of some culture meme -- not to mention less inaccurate. Thinking "culture" whenever a black commits a crime is moving the die toward the guarantee of the next event happening.

Yes, I KNOW it's a matter of culture, but thinking in those terms does no good for anybody. These were bad men, period.

[Horace]

@Catseye3 said in "Make sure he dead.":

If the killers had been white, would you have been so quick to play the culture card?

The culture card

Actually circa everything is culture, as humans are blank slates by evolution, programmed by culture.

If you don't play the culture card, you don't have a hand in any discussion.

[Catseye3]

@Horace said in "Make sure he dead.":

If you don't play the culture card, you don't have a hand in any discussion.

What I'm trying to say: When a black guy deliberately, willfully, maliciously ends a life and our reaction is that it's "culture", there's an implied shrug, an implication of helplessness, like, "what're you gonna do." If you're looking for massive, society-wide racism, you couldn't do better. It's an offense to everybody.

[Horace]

@Catseye3 said in "Make sure he dead.":

@Horace said in "Make sure he dead.":

If you don't play the culture card, you don't have a hand in any discussion.

What I'm trying to say: When a black guy deliberately, willfully, maliciously ends a life and our reaction is that it's "culture", there's an implied shrug, an implication of helplessness, like, "what're you gonna do." If you're looking for massive, society-wide racism, you couldn't do better. It's an offense to everybody.

I can't speak for Jolly, but the claim that it's culture precedes solutions for culture. If culture is incubated in a Petri dish of lived experience, a dish that excludes criticism, then good luck improving it.

But improving it isn't actually the point. Because of white progressive culture. The devaluation of black lives is a useful battery for white progressive culture. That battery recharges itself on the regular.

[Catseye3]

@Horace said in "Make sure he dead.":

The devaluation of black lives is a useful battery for white progressive culture. That battery recharges itself on the regular.

Boy howdy. Can't argue with that. This observation is one of the many reminders I've gotten of that book that Jon and I have redd, by the young black man -- I forget the title, but the theme was, Whites! Stop helping!

Otherwise, I think we're not quite talking on the same page, for which I blame myself really. I'm not being as clear as I'd like.

[Horace]

@Catseye3 said in "Make sure he dead.":

@Horace said in "Make sure he dead.":

The devaluation of black lives is a useful battery for white progressive culture. That battery recharges itself on the regular.

Boy howdy. Can't argue with that. This observation is one of the many reminders I've gotten of that book that Jon and I have redd, by the young black man -- I forget the title, but the theme was, Whites! Stop helping!

Otherwise, I think we're not quite talking on the same page, for which I blame myself really. I'm not being as clear as I'd like.

Hey I've been talking culture here forever. Apparently the word triggers some folk. But culture is everything. So it's hard not to talk about. Humans really are blank slates, and our thoughts and feels are not sacred. They are a product of culture.

[Jolly]

That's culture. A very violent, inner city culture, especially black culture that feels being "disrespected" should result in murder. And why not? The shooter gets three hots and a cot, and most likely will not serve life in prison, but will be out in a decade with a buttload of street cred. Shucks, Bragg may let him plead down to a misdemeanor, such as unlawful discharge of a firearm.

Personally, since they have the video of his shooting a man in the back of the head, while the victim is walking away and then putting another round in him to make sure the victim is dead, I'd give the shooter a fair trial and I'd hang him before the end of the week. With a slip knot.

Used to work with a black PhD chemist and the guy would talk about his childhood in Depression-era St. Louis. He lived in a black neighborhood, with a strong emphasis on community and responsibility. A story he told really illustrated what the community was about...

He and his friends were playing baseball or stickball in the streets (I can't remember which), when he hit a ball and broke an elderly widow's house window. The rest of the crew scattered, while Auntie (all old women are your aunt, whether they are or not) came out just a spittin' and grabbed him by his ear and as he stood there dumbfounded.

Auntie dragged him home and let his mama have it on the front porch, while she held on to his ear. Then she let him go and mama give him a whipping on the front porch in front of God and everybody, with the dreaded words, "Now, wait until your father gets home".

Wasn't any fun when his father came home from the job. Daddy whipped him with a belt and when the tears stopped, Daddy marched him down to Auntie's house. He had to apologize to Auntie on the front porch and then his dad made him tape up a piece of cardboard over the broken windowpane. Before he left, he told the old lady he would be back Saturday with his dad to fix the pane.

Early Saturday morning, he and his dad were back. His dad showed him how to do the job, then made him clean out the old glaze on the mullion, put the new pane in and then glaze it into place. After the job was done to the lady's satisfaction, he apologized again and was allowed to go home.

But the story doesn't end there. His dad made him do odd jobs in the neighborhood, anything he could find, for a couple of pennies here or a nickel there, until he refunded the household money kitty for the cost of the glasspane.

He never forgot that story and would often tell it, when asked about the problems in today's black community. He said it summed up most of the problems.

1. Community. All the people in the community would look out for and discipline if necessary, other people's children. We live together, go to church together and we're like a big, extended family.
2. Correction. When you did something wrong, correction was immediate. And sometimes, public. (Shame factor)
3. Personal responsibility. He broke it and it was HIS responsibility to fix what he had broken. Not his dad's, but his.
4. Two parent families and parenting. His parents loved him, and mom may have fussed at him, but dad was the primary disciplinarian and the enforcer of home rules.
5. Expectations. There were no expectations he would avoid punishment or responsibility. When you did wrong, you made it right. And you made it right to the best of your ability.

He went on to talk about how well the children of that neighborhood turned out. He probably had the most education, but as far as he knew, all of the children and their families were primarily middle class. Their jobs ranged from factory worker, a mechanic, a career soldier, a school teacher, a homemaker, a nurse and a few others in that vein. Some better off than others, but all productive.

And then he'd lament about the city black community today, with its lack of pride, responsibility and accomplishment. The buildings didn't change, the culture did.

[Catseye3]

TL;DR. Didn't need to: I got two things out of it.

1.) It'll be the same message you always leave, and
2.) You will never change the message. Never.

[Jolly]

@Catseye3 said in "Make sure he dead.":

TL;DR. Didn't need to: I got two things out of it.

1.) It'll be the same message you always leave, and
2.) You will never change the message. Never.

Your loss.

I notice you tend to prefer an ignorant, soothing cocoon.

[Catseye3]

@Jolly said in "Make sure he dead.":

I notice you tend to prefer an ignorant, soothing cocoon.

Yeah, yeah -- when all else fails, like intellect, go with the insult.

[Doctor Phibes]

Liberals blame all the problems in the black community on the white community.

Conservatives blame all the problems in the black community on the black community.

Neither opinion seems to hold out much possibility of providing a solution.

[Horace]

@Catseye3 said in "Make sure he dead.":

TL;DR. Didn't need to: I got two things out of it.

1.) It'll be the same message you always leave, and
2.) You will never change the message. Never.

Jolly is a legit thinker, IMO. He's a legit writer. Go fuck yourself to those who think otherwise. I will never forget the life stories of the Deweys and the Jollys. Let it be.

[LuFins Dad]

@Catseye3 said in "Make sure he dead.":

If the killers had been white, would you have been so quick to play the culture card?

Yes. Same culture, likely. Being a thug ain’t about race.

[Jolly]

@Catseye3 said in "Make sure he dead.":

@Jolly said in "Make sure he dead.":

I notice you tend to prefer an ignorant, soothing cocoon.

Yeah, yeah -- when all else fails, like intellect, go with the insult.

In the words of Will Smith, Don't start no shit, unless you want shit started.

[Catseye3]

@Jolly said in "Make sure he dead.":

In the words of Will Smith, Don't start no shit, unless you want shit started.

From you? Somehow I'm not worried.

[Jolly]

@Catseye3 said in "Make sure he dead.":

@Jolly said in "Make sure he dead.":

In the words of Will Smith, Don't start no shit, unless you want shit started.

From you? Somehow I'm not worried.

Lady, I'm perfectly capable of tearing you a new asshole. If you'd like to go there, open the ball and we'll dance to the music.