Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse

The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Leopard 2 vs. M1

Leopard 2 vs. M1

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
12 Posts 8 Posters 140 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • JollyJ Offline
    JollyJ Offline
    Jolly
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Ukraine would be much better off with 200 Leopard 2 tanks than with 150 Leopard 2's and 50 M1's.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/24/hammer-blow-vladimir-putin-ukraine-get-200-tanks-west/

    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

    1 Reply Last reply
    • George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      They could have phrased the first paragraph a bit better (emphasis mine):

      The West is poised to send nearly 200 battle tanks to Ukraine in a potential hammer blow that could help Kyiv win its war against Vladimir Putin.

      How about "stop Russia's invasion." or something like that?

      Sending less would mean the Abrams’ "usefulness would outweigh their strain on logistics chains".

      Shouldn't it be "Sending fewer?"

      But, I digress. Why would the Leopard 2 tanks be a better choice? The article doesn't go there.

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      Doctor PhibesD Aqua LetiferA 2 Replies Last reply
      • George KG George K

        They could have phrased the first paragraph a bit better (emphasis mine):

        The West is poised to send nearly 200 battle tanks to Ukraine in a potential hammer blow that could help Kyiv win its war against Vladimir Putin.

        How about "stop Russia's invasion." or something like that?

        Sending less would mean the Abrams’ "usefulness would outweigh their strain on logistics chains".

        Shouldn't it be "Sending fewer?"

        But, I digress. Why would the Leopard 2 tanks be a better choice? The article doesn't go there.

        Doctor PhibesD Offline
        Doctor PhibesD Offline
        Doctor Phibes
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        @George-K said in Leopard 2 vs. M1:

        But, I digress. Why would the Leopard 2 tanks be a better choice? The article doesn't go there.

        I'd heard it was because the Abrams requires more complex maintenance.

        I was only joking

        RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
        • CopperC Online
          CopperC Online
          Copper
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Yes, simpler supply chain, fewer maintenance parts and people and ammunition

          JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
          • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

            @George-K said in Leopard 2 vs. M1:

            But, I digress. Why would the Leopard 2 tanks be a better choice? The article doesn't go there.

            I'd heard it was because the Abrams requires more complex maintenance.

            RenaudaR Offline
            RenaudaR Offline
            Renauda
            wrote on last edited by Renauda
            #5

            @Doctor-Phibes said in Leopard 2 vs. M1:

            @George-K said in Leopard 2 vs. M1:

            But, I digress. Why would the Leopard 2 tanks be a better choice? The article doesn't go there.

            I'd heard it was because the Abrams requires more complex maintenance.

            That is my understanding as well. As one defence analyst explained, the Leopard was designed for a moderately trained conscript army while the M1 was designed for a highly trained and specialised professional army.

            Elbows up!

            1 Reply Last reply
            • CopperC Copper

              Yes, simpler supply chain, fewer maintenance parts and people and ammunition

              JollyJ Offline
              JollyJ Offline
              Jolly
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              @Copper said in Leopard 2 vs. M1:

              Yes, simpler supply chain, fewer maintenance parts and people and ammunition

              Yep, and it takes a little while to train a good tank crew. With Leopard 2, Challenger 2 and the M1 in the mix, training would be a nightmare. One of the main reasons British and American tanks are so good, is because their crews are very good.

              Also, there are a lot more Leopards out there, that could possibly become available.

              Some Leopard 2 background:

              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_2

              I find it interesting that both the M1 and the L2 have design elements of the MBT-70. It's even more interesting that Russia's new tank, the Armata, also has some of those design elements.

              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

              1 Reply Last reply
              • George KG George K

                They could have phrased the first paragraph a bit better (emphasis mine):

                The West is poised to send nearly 200 battle tanks to Ukraine in a potential hammer blow that could help Kyiv win its war against Vladimir Putin.

                How about "stop Russia's invasion." or something like that?

                Sending less would mean the Abrams’ "usefulness would outweigh their strain on logistics chains".

                Shouldn't it be "Sending fewer?"

                But, I digress. Why would the Leopard 2 tanks be a better choice? The article doesn't go there.

                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                Aqua Letifer
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                @George-K said in Leopard 2 vs. M1:

                Shouldn't it be "Sending fewer?"

                Depends on whether they were referring to the degree of support being sent, or literally the tanks.

                Please love yourself.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                  #8

                  I’m surprised we haven’t heard more complaints about the Army naming a tank after Stacey Abrams.

                  You were warned.

                  George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                    I’m surprised we haven’t heard more complaints about the Army naming a tank after Stacey Abrams.

                    George KG Offline
                    George KG Offline
                    George K
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @jon-nyc said in Leopard 2 vs. M1:

                    I’m surprised we haven’t heard more complaints about the Army naming a tank after Stacey Abrams.

                    You know that she is frequently referred to as Stacy "Tank" Abrams, right?

                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • kluursK Offline
                      kluursK Offline
                      kluurs
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      German precision

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • George KG Offline
                        George KG Offline
                        George K
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        m42lq2vrccea1.jpg

                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • CopperC Online
                          CopperC Online
                          Copper
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Shame

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          Reply
                          • Reply as topic
                          Log in to reply
                          • Oldest to Newest
                          • Newest to Oldest
                          • Most Votes


                          • Login

                          • Don't have an account? Register

                          • Login or register to search.
                          • First post
                            Last post
                          0
                          • Categories
                          • Recent
                          • Tags
                          • Popular
                          • Users
                          • Groups