Not a riot
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@Larry said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
I posted a video still of the tear gas and we're still debating this. We've approached "I'll see it when I believe it." Protester bad. Whatever.
You've bought into a media lie. Those were smoke bomb canisters. Not tear gas.
WUSA 9 isn't exactly Mother Jones, or even WaPo, Larry. They are generally pretty much down the middle. They have physical evidence of this. Aqua and I are hardly on the side of Antifa and BLM, but we both know people that we trust that were on-site and said it happened.
On the other hand, we have the Park Police giving an oddly specific statement about the tear gas.
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Meanwhile in Buffalo
Link to videoProud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Not a riot:
Meanwhile in Buffalo
Link to videoThat was one of the Instagram videos Aqua posted. Oddly enough, I don't really have as much of an issue with that one... It looks to me like the Police were doing an advance. They are instructed to walk forward and to not stop, just keep moving and move whatever is in your way. It doesn't look like a hard shove at all. It looks more like the old guy was surprised and stumbled backward and fell. The guy that was closest bends over and obviously wants to help, but his superior (the one talking on the walkie-talkie sends him and the others on while she calls for medical assistance.
Unfortunate, but that is as much on the protestor as the police. Maybe even more.
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They didn't have to do what they did, LD. Minimum necessary force. He was one old man for crying out loud, they could have turned him around to get him to start walking. Judging by his size and age that would have taken about a second to do. Cop wasn't evil but you're going to tell me that was the most ideal way to handle that? (And yeah the guy absolutely shouldn't have tried to hold the police up, but how old is he?)
More generally, police get training in de-escalation, but we give them a pass in the heat of the moment. Citizens receive no such training, but the onus is on them to keep the situation calm in police confrontations. Tell me how that makes any kind of sense.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Not a riot:
On the other hand, we have the Park Police giving an oddly specific statement about the tear gas.
I still bet you ten bucks they all got last-minute word from a White House official about the President's plans, coordination sucked as there were multiple organizations present, and the clearing out was botched.
Had the White House waited 25 damn minutes, they would have had all the excuse in the world to use any means necessary to clear the crowd.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
@LuFins-Dad said in Not a riot:
On the other hand, we have the Park Police giving an oddly specific statement about the tear gas.
I still bet you ten bucks they all got last-minute word from a White House official about the President's plans, coordination sucked as there were multiple organizations present, and the clearing out was botched.
Had the White House waited 25 damn minutes, they would have had all the excuse in the world to use any means necessary to clear the crowd.
I agree 100%.
On another note, I saw that tear gas helps spread Covid, so we can now blame future spread on police for gassing protesters. This is the world we live in.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
They didn't have to do what they did, LD. Minimum necessary force. He was one old man for crying out loud, they could have turned him around to get him to start walking. Judging by his size and age that would have taken about a second to do. Cop wasn't evil but you're going to tell me that was the most ideal way to handle that? (And yeah the guy absolutely shouldn't have tried to hold the police up, but how old is he?)
More generally, police get training in de-escalation, but we give them a pass in the heat of the moment. Citizens receive no such training, but the onus is on them to keep the situation calm in police confrontations. Tell me how that makes any kind of sense.
I'm not saying it was right or proper, I'm just saying that it's not the worst thing we're going to see people do today or this weekend.
As for the other videos, I would love to see longer videos of the leadup to that moment. Don't know what was happening with the convertible? Maybe they tried to run an officer down? Maybe they were being busted in the act of escaping with loot? Who knows.
As for the tear gas in the car, that would be a hell of a shot... What I saw at the end wasn't tear gas, but pepper rounds? Maybe there's a pregnant woman in the car, maybe there isn't. If the officers felt they were under attack at that moment, it becomes irrelevant, I hate to say. We can't judge these events based on a 20 second video.
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@Loki said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
@LuFins-Dad said in Not a riot:
On the other hand, we have the Park Police giving an oddly specific statement about the tear gas.
I still bet you ten bucks they all got last-minute word from a White House official about the President's plans, coordination sucked as there were multiple organizations present, and the clearing out was botched.
Had the White House waited 25 damn minutes, they would have had all the excuse in the world to use any means necessary to clear the crowd.
I agree 100%.
On another note, I saw that tear gas helps spread Covid, so we can now blame future spread on police for gassing protesters. This is the world we live in.
I agree wholeheartedly, too.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Not a riot:
@Larry said in Not a riot:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Not a riot:
I posted a video still of the tear gas and we're still debating this. We've approached "I'll see it when I believe it." Protester bad. Whatever.
You've bought into a media lie. Those were smoke bomb canisters. Not tear gas.
WUSA 9 isn't exactly Mother Jones, or even WaPo, Larry. They are generally pretty much down the middle. They have physical evidence of this. Aqua and I are hardly on the side of Antifa and BLM, but we both know people that we trust that were on-site and said it happened.
On the other hand, we have the Park Police giving an oddly specific statement about the tear gas.
Aqua posted a video that he claimed showed the police positioning brick piles, the implication being that the police were helping the rioters. The truth is that the police had confiscated that pile of brick and were removing it. This is the level of credibility I see in most all of the defense of these "peaceful protesters". So while maybe some of your friends saw a few tear gas canisters, two facts remain - the police officially deny it, and 2, no one can disprove the possibility that a few tear gas canisters were picked up by a "peaceful protester" at another location and then dropped there to make it look like the police used tear gas.
A peaceful protester has a point he wants to make. He makes the point, and then he goes home. He does not continue marching through the streets for days on end while all around him people are looting and pillaging and killing people. I have absolutely NO sympathy for a "peaceful protester" once that's the situation, nor do I give a damn what they have to say.
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Secret Service walks back denial of using pepper spray on White House protesters
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/secret-service-walks-back-denial-of-using-tear-gas-on-white-house-protestersPark Police walk back tear gas denial in aggressive Lafayette Park clearing
https://www.foxnews.com/us/park-police-walk-back-tear-gas-denial-in-lafayette-park-clearing -
