Most interesting word
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Hay @Aqua-Letifer , this true?
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Oh yeah. THIS bullshit. It’s the etymological equivalent of “who shot first, Han or Greedo?” George, you had me take a deep dive into my old stuff, and look up quite a few things besides.
First, what he’s talking about is a comparative correlative. English has them, along with a lot of other Germanic and Scando languages.
The thing about comparative correlatives is that they start with a demonstrative. For some Scando languages, it’s not “the” but “because.” (More on this later. I think it's critical in unraveling the mystery.)
Now, considering this construction, and the tools other language relatives use to make their own constructions, and the fact that English is Germanic, it’s pretty damn clear the “the” in our examples is not at all the same “the” as in “What in the fuck is George looking up on a Saturday morning, this is word nerd stuff cranked up to 11.”
So basically, a common sense understanding of language indicates that yeah, it’s a different “the.” THAT much of his claim is true. OED says as much, too. So yes, there's a phantom "the" in English. One with a shadowy past. Entirely true.
But this is where I think it falls apart:
“a conjunction descended from the old english “þā”, pronounced “tha” which means either “when” or “then”
I don’t think so. Some folks have taken seriously deep dives into this, and (1) there’s no definitive consensus but (2) pretty much everyone agrees that the phantom “the” derives from an instrumental form of “that,” not “when”. “When” is possible considering how comparative correlatives work in other similar languages, so it’s not a bad assumption, but there seems to be more evidence that it’s closer to “that.”
Personally, though? I think it’s a bastardization of “thy.” It was used as an Old English conjunction that means, “because” or "since" or “then.” Which makes sense, right? “The more, the merrier.” “Since more, then merrier.” Also, it matches up with what our friends the Frisians were doing. (Frisian is our language's closest etymological cousin.) Old Norse used “þí” for their comparative correlatives, which the Frisians changed slightly to “þiu”. This is significant because (1) the phonetics were similar and (2) the usage was similar, too. So, my money’s on “thy” being the origin, not this guy’s “when/then” and not everyone else’s “when/that”.
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Oh yeah. THIS bullshit. It’s the etymological equivalent of “who shot first, Han or Greedo?” George, you had me take a deep dive into my old stuff, and look up quite a few things besides.
First, what he’s talking about is a comparative correlative. English has them, along with a lot of other Germanic and Scando languages.
The thing about comparative correlatives is that they start with a demonstrative. For some Scando languages, it’s not “the” but “because.” (More on this later. I think it's critical in unraveling the mystery.)
Now, considering this construction, and the tools other language relatives use to make their own constructions, and the fact that English is Germanic, it’s pretty damn clear the “the” in our examples is not at all the same “the” as in “What in the fuck is George looking up on a Saturday morning, this is word nerd stuff cranked up to 11.”
So basically, a common sense understanding of language indicates that yeah, it’s a different “the.” THAT much of his claim is true. OED says as much, too. So yes, there's a phantom "the" in English. One with a shadowy past. Entirely true.
But this is where I think it falls apart:
“a conjunction descended from the old english “þā”, pronounced “tha” which means either “when” or “then”
I don’t think so. Some folks have taken seriously deep dives into this, and (1) there’s no definitive consensus but (2) pretty much everyone agrees that the phantom “the” derives from an instrumental form of “that,” not “when”. “When” is possible considering how comparative correlatives work in other similar languages, so it’s not a bad assumption, but there seems to be more evidence that it’s closer to “that.”
Personally, though? I think it’s a bastardization of “thy.” It was used as an Old English conjunction that means, “because” or "since" or “then.” Which makes sense, right? “The more, the merrier.” “Since more, then merrier.” Also, it matches up with what our friends the Frisians were doing. (Frisian is our language's closest etymological cousin.) Old Norse used “þí” for their comparative correlatives, which the Frisians changed slightly to “þiu”. This is significant because (1) the phonetics were similar and (2) the usage was similar, too. So, my money’s on “thy” being the origin, not this guy’s “when/then” and not everyone else’s “when/that”.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Most interesting word:
Oh yeah. THIS bullshit. It’s the etymological equivalent of “who shot first, Han or Greedo?” George, you had me take a deep dive into my old stuff, and look up quite a few things besides.
First, what he’s talking about is a comparative correlative. English has them, along with a lot of other Germanic and Scando languages.
The thing about comparative correlatives is that they start with a demonstrative. For some Scando languages, it’s not “the” but “because.” (More on this later. I think it's critical in unraveling the mystery.)
Now, considering this construction, and the tools other language relatives use to make their own constructions, and the fact that English is Germanic, it’s pretty damn clear the “the” in our examples is not at all the same “the” as in “What in the fuck is George looking up on a Saturday morning, this is word nerd stuff cranked up to 11.”
So basically, a common sense understanding of language indicates that yeah, it’s a different “the.” THAT much of his claim is true. OED says as much, too. So yes, there's a phantom "the" in English. One with a shadowy past. Entirely true.
But this is where I think it falls apart:
“a conjunction descended from the old english “þā”, pronounced “tha” which means either “when” or “then”
I don’t think so. Some folks have taken seriously deep dives into this, and (1) there’s no definitive consensus but (2) pretty much everyone agrees that the phantom “the” derives from an instrumental form of “that,” not “when”. “When” is possible considering how comparative correlatives work in other similar languages, so it’s not a bad assumption, but there seems to be more evidence that it’s closer to “that.”
Personally, though? I think it’s a bastardization of “thy.” It was used as an Old English conjunction that means, “because” or "since" or “then.” Which makes sense, right? “The more, the merrier.” “Since more, then merrier.” Also, it matches up with what our friends the Frisians were doing. (Frisian is our language's closest etymological cousin.) Old Norse used “þí” for their comparative correlatives, which the Frisians changed slightly to “þiu”. This is significant because (1) the phonetics were similar and (2) the usage was similar, too. So, my money’s on “thy” being the origin, not this guy’s “when/then” and not everyone else’s “when/that”.
Don’t know about the rest of it, but Han definitely shot first. There is no question about that.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Most interesting word:
Oh yeah. THIS bullshit. It’s the etymological equivalent of “who shot first, Han or Greedo?” George, you had me take a deep dive into my old stuff, and look up quite a few things besides.
First, what he’s talking about is a comparative correlative. English has them, along with a lot of other Germanic and Scando languages.
The thing about comparative correlatives is that they start with a demonstrative. For some Scando languages, it’s not “the” but “because.” (More on this later. I think it's critical in unraveling the mystery.)
Now, considering this construction, and the tools other language relatives use to make their own constructions, and the fact that English is Germanic, it’s pretty damn clear the “the” in our examples is not at all the same “the” as in “What in the fuck is George looking up on a Saturday morning, this is word nerd stuff cranked up to 11.”
So basically, a common sense understanding of language indicates that yeah, it’s a different “the.” THAT much of his claim is true. OED says as much, too. So yes, there's a phantom "the" in English. One with a shadowy past. Entirely true.
But this is where I think it falls apart:
“a conjunction descended from the old english “þā”, pronounced “tha” which means either “when” or “then”
I don’t think so. Some folks have taken seriously deep dives into this, and (1) there’s no definitive consensus but (2) pretty much everyone agrees that the phantom “the” derives from an instrumental form of “that,” not “when”. “When” is possible considering how comparative correlatives work in other similar languages, so it’s not a bad assumption, but there seems to be more evidence that it’s closer to “that.”
Personally, though? I think it’s a bastardization of “thy.” It was used as an Old English conjunction that means, “because” or "since" or “then.” Which makes sense, right? “The more, the merrier.” “Since more, then merrier.” Also, it matches up with what our friends the Frisians were doing. (Frisian is our language's closest etymological cousin.) Old Norse used “þí” for their comparative correlatives, which the Frisians changed slightly to “þiu”. This is significant because (1) the phonetics were similar and (2) the usage was similar, too. So, my money’s on “thy” being the origin, not this guy’s “when/then” and not everyone else’s “when/that”.
Don’t know about the rest of it, but Han definitely shot first. There is no question about that.
@LuFins-Dad said in Most interesting word:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Most interesting word:
Oh yeah. THIS bullshit. It’s the etymological equivalent of “who shot first, Han or Greedo?” George, you had me take a deep dive into my old stuff, and look up quite a few things besides.
First, what he’s talking about is a comparative correlative. English has them, along with a lot of other Germanic and Scando languages.
The thing about comparative correlatives is that they start with a demonstrative. For some Scando languages, it’s not “the” but “because.” (More on this later. I think it's critical in unraveling the mystery.)
Now, considering this construction, and the tools other language relatives use to make their own constructions, and the fact that English is Germanic, it’s pretty damn clear the “the” in our examples is not at all the same “the” as in “What in the fuck is George looking up on a Saturday morning, this is word nerd stuff cranked up to 11.”
So basically, a common sense understanding of language indicates that yeah, it’s a different “the.” THAT much of his claim is true. OED says as much, too. So yes, there's a phantom "the" in English. One with a shadowy past. Entirely true.
But this is where I think it falls apart:
“a conjunction descended from the old english “þā”, pronounced “tha” which means either “when” or “then”
I don’t think so. Some folks have taken seriously deep dives into this, and (1) there’s no definitive consensus but (2) pretty much everyone agrees that the phantom “the” derives from an instrumental form of “that,” not “when”. “When” is possible considering how comparative correlatives work in other similar languages, so it’s not a bad assumption, but there seems to be more evidence that it’s closer to “that.”
Personally, though? I think it’s a bastardization of “thy.” It was used as an Old English conjunction that means, “because” or "since" or “then.” Which makes sense, right? “The more, the merrier.” “Since more, then merrier.” Also, it matches up with what our friends the Frisians were doing. (Frisian is our language's closest etymological cousin.) Old Norse used “þí” for their comparative correlatives, which the Frisians changed slightly to “þiu”. This is significant because (1) the phonetics were similar and (2) the usage was similar, too. So, my money’s on “thy” being the origin, not this guy’s “when/then” and not everyone else’s “when/that”.
Don’t know about the rest of it, but Han definitely shot first. There is no question about that.
We have an accord.
