Most regretted and least regretted college majors
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@Horace said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Horace said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
The next three are cases of the easiest majors at the school, taken by the least intellectually able, not panning out financially.
Arts and humanities programs have indeed gone down the tubes in the past few decades. And indeed, they are now repositories for some of the worst students. But it's untrue to say they're the easiest majors categorically.
Maybe in the sense that categories don't apply. But if there is a categorical answer to which majors are easiest, those would be the categorical answer, at least before the -studies majors came along. Those were the majors one would see during player intros in Saturday afternoon college football games, back when I was a kid. I think there is a certain categorical reason for that. Those were the majors where ungifted students could get by without attending class or doing much in the way of studying. Also it's probably important to distinguish between undergrad and grad degrees here. I assume the original article is talking about undergrad degrees.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's incredibly common for those in STEM fields to get all hand-wavey about the lower value or easier nature of the arts and humanities to hide their inadequacy. Discrediting something you suck at is a coping mechanism we learn to practice as young children. Sometimes we never grow out of it.
Much of the problem of "regret" comes not from the nature of the program but what's left out of the instruction. It's obvious what software engineering prepares you for. Studying creative writing also has several direct applications in professional environments, but many programs just don't teach them. If they did, there'd be far less regret, and students would be far more successful.
It's obvious what engineering prepares you for, yes. A lifetime of engineering work. If they find it grueling and difficult in school, good luck with the rest of their life. I suspect that's another reason why there's a flow from STEM disciplines towards the artistic disciplines as students approach graduation. In STEM, the school work is a window into the rest of one's life. And it's not exactly worthy of most romantic notions of following one's passion, especially after the calculus wall is hit. A creative arts degree is more fuzzy, and I guess it allows one to maintain the perception of options. Maybe its main draw is to remove unequivocal 'work' from the list of options. Anybody who gets a STEM degree is willingly signing up for a lifetime of work. The intellectual equivalent of manual labor.
Individual programs, professors or students run the gamut between silly and rigorous. And there are plenty silly ones—more so in the arts and humanities, because it's easier to get away with. But any belief that a discipline itself is lesser or greater than is proof of a shallow education.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Horace said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Horace said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
The next three are cases of the easiest majors at the school, taken by the least intellectually able, not panning out financially.
Arts and humanities programs have indeed gone down the tubes in the past few decades. And indeed, they are now repositories for some of the worst students. But it's untrue to say they're the easiest majors categorically.
Maybe in the sense that categories don't apply. But if there is a categorical answer to which majors are easiest, those would be the categorical answer, at least before the -studies majors came along. Those were the majors one would see during player intros in Saturday afternoon college football games, back when I was a kid. I think there is a certain categorical reason for that. Those were the majors where ungifted students could get by without attending class or doing much in the way of studying. Also it's probably important to distinguish between undergrad and grad degrees here. I assume the original article is talking about undergrad degrees.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's incredibly common for those in STEM fields to get all hand-wavey about the lower value or easier nature of the arts and humanities to hide their inadequacy. Discrediting something you suck at is a coping mechanism we learn to practice as young children. Sometimes we never grow out of it.
Much of the problem of "regret" comes not from the nature of the program but what's left out of the instruction. It's obvious what software engineering prepares you for. Studying creative writing also has several direct applications in professional environments, but many programs just don't teach them. If they did, there'd be far less regret, and students would be far more successful.
It's obvious what engineering prepares you for, yes. A lifetime of engineering work. If they find it grueling and difficult in school, good luck with the rest of their life. I suspect that's another reason why there's a flow from STEM disciplines towards the artistic disciplines as students approach graduation. In STEM, the school work is a window into the rest of one's life. And it's not exactly worthy of most romantic notions of following one's passion, especially after the calculus wall is hit. A creative arts degree is more fuzzy, and I guess it allows one to maintain the perception of options. Maybe its main draw is to remove unequivocal 'work' from the list of options. Anybody who gets a STEM degree is willingly signing up for a lifetime of work. The intellectual equivalent of manual labor.
Individual programs, professors or students run the gamut between silly and rigorous. And there are plenty silly ones—more so in the arts and humanities, because it's easier to get away with. But any belief that a discipline itself is lesser or greater than is proof of a shallow education.
I have no doubt that brilliant people might plow through any given major, if that's their choice. If I don't think formal education is particularly important, then that is a corollary. One can be skilled or unskilled in any given discipline, or productive or not, or well educated or not, regardless of the formal education you have.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Horace said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Horace said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
The next three are cases of the easiest majors at the school, taken by the least intellectually able, not panning out financially.
Arts and humanities programs have indeed gone down the tubes in the past few decades. And indeed, they are now repositories for some of the worst students. But it's untrue to say they're the easiest majors categorically.
Maybe in the sense that categories don't apply. But if there is a categorical answer to which majors are easiest, those would be the categorical answer, at least before the -studies majors came along. Those were the majors one would see during player intros in Saturday afternoon college football games, back when I was a kid. I think there is a certain categorical reason for that. Those were the majors where ungifted students could get by without attending class or doing much in the way of studying. Also it's probably important to distinguish between undergrad and grad degrees here. I assume the original article is talking about undergrad degrees.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's incredibly common for those in STEM fields to get all hand-wavey about the lower value or easier nature of the arts and humanities to hide their inadequacy. Discrediting something you suck at is a coping mechanism we learn to practice as young children. Sometimes we never grow out of it.
Much of the problem of "regret" comes not from the nature of the program but what's left out of the instruction. It's obvious what software engineering prepares you for. Studying creative writing also has several direct applications in professional environments, but many programs just don't teach them. If they did, there'd be far less regret, and students would be far more successful.
It's obvious what engineering prepares you for, yes. A lifetime of engineering work. If they find it grueling and difficult in school, good luck with the rest of their life. I suspect that's another reason why there's a flow from STEM disciplines towards the artistic disciplines as students approach graduation. In STEM, the school work is a window into the rest of one's life. And it's not exactly worthy of most romantic notions of following one's passion, especially after the calculus wall is hit. A creative arts degree is more fuzzy, and I guess it allows one to maintain the perception of options. Maybe its main draw is to remove unequivocal 'work' from the list of options. Anybody who gets a STEM degree is willingly signing up for a lifetime of work. The intellectual equivalent of manual labor.
Individual programs, professors or students run the gamut between silly and rigorous. And there are plenty silly ones—more so in the arts and humanities, because it's easier to get away with. But any belief that a discipline itself is lesser or greater than is proof of a shallow education.
I have no doubt that brilliant people might plow through any given major, if that's their choice. If I don't think formal education is particularly important, then that is a corollary. One can be skilled or unskilled in any given discipline, or productive or not, or well educated or not, regardless of the formal education you have.
@Horace said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Horace said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Horace said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
The next three are cases of the easiest majors at the school, taken by the least intellectually able, not panning out financially.
Arts and humanities programs have indeed gone down the tubes in the past few decades. And indeed, they are now repositories for some of the worst students. But it's untrue to say they're the easiest majors categorically.
Maybe in the sense that categories don't apply. But if there is a categorical answer to which majors are easiest, those would be the categorical answer, at least before the -studies majors came along. Those were the majors one would see during player intros in Saturday afternoon college football games, back when I was a kid. I think there is a certain categorical reason for that. Those were the majors where ungifted students could get by without attending class or doing much in the way of studying. Also it's probably important to distinguish between undergrad and grad degrees here. I assume the original article is talking about undergrad degrees.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's incredibly common for those in STEM fields to get all hand-wavey about the lower value or easier nature of the arts and humanities to hide their inadequacy. Discrediting something you suck at is a coping mechanism we learn to practice as young children. Sometimes we never grow out of it.
Much of the problem of "regret" comes not from the nature of the program but what's left out of the instruction. It's obvious what software engineering prepares you for. Studying creative writing also has several direct applications in professional environments, but many programs just don't teach them. If they did, there'd be far less regret, and students would be far more successful.
It's obvious what engineering prepares you for, yes. A lifetime of engineering work. If they find it grueling and difficult in school, good luck with the rest of their life. I suspect that's another reason why there's a flow from STEM disciplines towards the artistic disciplines as students approach graduation. In STEM, the school work is a window into the rest of one's life. And it's not exactly worthy of most romantic notions of following one's passion, especially after the calculus wall is hit. A creative arts degree is more fuzzy, and I guess it allows one to maintain the perception of options. Maybe its main draw is to remove unequivocal 'work' from the list of options. Anybody who gets a STEM degree is willingly signing up for a lifetime of work. The intellectual equivalent of manual labor.
Individual programs, professors or students run the gamut between silly and rigorous. And there are plenty silly ones—more so in the arts and humanities, because it's easier to get away with. But any belief that a discipline itself is lesser or greater than is proof of a shallow education.
I have no doubt that brilliant people might plow through any given major, if that's their choice. If I don't think formal education is particularly important, then that is a corollary. One can be skilled or unskilled in any given discipline, or productive or not, or well educated or not, regardless of the formal education you have.
Definitely so. I'm really just speaking to the IT professionals, engineers, accountants and lawyers who look down on arts and humanities disciplines or those in creative fields as lesser than while at the same time couldn't make a successful movie, poster, album cover, poem or photograph if their life depended on it.
Don't get me wrong, I couldn't fix my house's plumbing if my life depended on it, but I'm also not going around thinking master plumbers are dummies because they don't do what I do. That would be ridiculous.
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@Horace said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Horace said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Horace said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
The next three are cases of the easiest majors at the school, taken by the least intellectually able, not panning out financially.
Arts and humanities programs have indeed gone down the tubes in the past few decades. And indeed, they are now repositories for some of the worst students. But it's untrue to say they're the easiest majors categorically.
Maybe in the sense that categories don't apply. But if there is a categorical answer to which majors are easiest, those would be the categorical answer, at least before the -studies majors came along. Those were the majors one would see during player intros in Saturday afternoon college football games, back when I was a kid. I think there is a certain categorical reason for that. Those were the majors where ungifted students could get by without attending class or doing much in the way of studying. Also it's probably important to distinguish between undergrad and grad degrees here. I assume the original article is talking about undergrad degrees.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's incredibly common for those in STEM fields to get all hand-wavey about the lower value or easier nature of the arts and humanities to hide their inadequacy. Discrediting something you suck at is a coping mechanism we learn to practice as young children. Sometimes we never grow out of it.
Much of the problem of "regret" comes not from the nature of the program but what's left out of the instruction. It's obvious what software engineering prepares you for. Studying creative writing also has several direct applications in professional environments, but many programs just don't teach them. If they did, there'd be far less regret, and students would be far more successful.
It's obvious what engineering prepares you for, yes. A lifetime of engineering work. If they find it grueling and difficult in school, good luck with the rest of their life. I suspect that's another reason why there's a flow from STEM disciplines towards the artistic disciplines as students approach graduation. In STEM, the school work is a window into the rest of one's life. And it's not exactly worthy of most romantic notions of following one's passion, especially after the calculus wall is hit. A creative arts degree is more fuzzy, and I guess it allows one to maintain the perception of options. Maybe its main draw is to remove unequivocal 'work' from the list of options. Anybody who gets a STEM degree is willingly signing up for a lifetime of work. The intellectual equivalent of manual labor.
Individual programs, professors or students run the gamut between silly and rigorous. And there are plenty silly ones—more so in the arts and humanities, because it's easier to get away with. But any belief that a discipline itself is lesser or greater than is proof of a shallow education.
I have no doubt that brilliant people might plow through any given major, if that's their choice. If I don't think formal education is particularly important, then that is a corollary. One can be skilled or unskilled in any given discipline, or productive or not, or well educated or not, regardless of the formal education you have.
Definitely so. I'm really just speaking to the IT professionals, engineers, accountants and lawyers who look down on arts and humanities disciplines or those in creative fields as lesser than while at the same time couldn't make a successful movie, poster, album cover, poem or photograph if their life depended on it.
Don't get me wrong, I couldn't fix my house's plumbing if my life depended on it, but I'm also not going around thinking master plumbers are dummies because they don't do what I do. That would be ridiculous.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
I'm really just speaking to the IT professionals, engineers, accountants and lawyers who look down on arts and humanities disciplines
They are only looking down because they are sitting on their wallets.
They don't mean to be condescending or anything.
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I’m a little surprised by the Medical/Clinical Technician. Those are mostly decent paying jobs, no?
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I’m also a little surprised by how many are happy with their Computer & Information Sciences degrees. My understanding of the field is that many of the skills do not require a 4 year degree and by the time you graduate the skills you learned are 6 months away from being obsolete…
The Brad
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I am absolutely NOT surprised that Human Resource Services are happy with their fields of study… Unfortunately.
Same with psychology…
The Brad
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I’m also a little surprised by how many are happy with their Computer & Information Sciences degrees. My understanding of the field is that many of the skills do not require a 4 year degree and by the time you graduate the skills you learned are 6 months away from being obsolete…
@LuFins-Dad said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
I’m also a little surprised by how many are happy with their Computer & Information Sciences degrees. My understanding of the field is that many of the skills do not require a 4 year degree and by the time you graduate the skills you learned are 6 months away from being obsolete…
Where I work, the knowledge of the code base and the problem domain, which one learns on the job, quickly makes established employees more valuable than new employees. The established ones can be paid to learn new technologies if need be. Funny thing is, most of the training is in procedural stuff like six sigma or scrum or agile, rather than technologies.
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I am absolutely NOT surprised that Human Resource Services are happy with their fields of study… Unfortunately.
Same with psychology…
@LuFins-Dad I haven’t used calculus in anger since I graduated. Or Bernoulli’s equation. Or any of it.
We use ohm’s law quite a bit.
Probably the biggest challenge in my job is persuading customers with PhD’s that they don’t know what they’re doing when it comes to the area I work in.
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@LuFins-Dad I haven’t used calculus in anger since I graduated. Or Bernoulli’s equation. Or any of it.
We use ohm’s law quite a bit.
Probably the biggest challenge in my job is persuading customers with PhD’s that they don’t know what they’re doing when it comes to the area I work in.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
Probably the biggest challenge in my job is persuading customers with PhD’s that they don’t know what they’re doing when it comes to the area I work in.
Probably the biggest challenge in my job is persuading customers with MBAs that my ideas are theirs precisely because they don't know what they're doing when it comes to the area I work in.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
Probably the biggest challenge in my job is persuading customers with PhD’s that they don’t know what they’re doing when it comes to the area I work in.
Probably the biggest challenge in my job is persuading customers with MBAs that my ideas are theirs precisely because they don't know what they're doing when it comes to the area I work in.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
Probably the biggest challenge in my job is persuading customers with PhD’s that they don’t know what they’re doing when it comes to the area I work in.
Probably the biggest challenge in my job is persuading customers with MBAs that my ideas are theirs precisely because they don't know what they're doing when it comes to the area I work in.
I refuse to speak to people with MBA’s. I’m happy to be condescending to people with doctorates but I draw the line at MBA’s
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
Probably the biggest challenge in my job is persuading customers with PhD’s that they don’t know what they’re doing when it comes to the area I work in.
Probably the biggest challenge in my job is persuading customers with MBAs that my ideas are theirs precisely because they don't know what they're doing when it comes to the area I work in.
I refuse to speak to people with MBA’s. I’m happy to be condescending to people with doctorates but I draw the line at MBA’s
@Doctor-Phibes said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Most regretted and least regretted college majors:
Probably the biggest challenge in my job is persuading customers with PhD’s that they don’t know what they’re doing when it comes to the area I work in.
Probably the biggest challenge in my job is persuading customers with MBAs that my ideas are theirs precisely because they don't know what they're doing when it comes to the area I work in.
I refuse to speak to people with MBA’s. I’m happy to be condescending to people with doctorates but I draw the line at MBA’s
Nah c'mon, they're fun. They don't know when you're poking fun at them so you get to kick the can down the road some more.
