Mar-a-Lago raided
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She handed over the servers and cooperated.
He obfuscated, obstructed, and lied to the feds for a solid year.
@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
She handed over the servers and cooperated.
He obfuscated, obstructed, and lied to the feds for a solid year.
Turley, today:
Prosecuting Trump for a misdemeanor for possessing or removing classified documents would seem gratuitous, while prosecuting him for a felony would raise questions of biased or selective prosecution. After all, in 2016, Hillary Clinton had not just 113 documents containing classified material but some documents “classified at the Top Secret/Special Access Program level” on her private email servers. (In Trump’s case, the government allegedly found roughly 100 documents in the Mar-a-Lago raid in addition to roughly 150 handled over by the Trump team under an earlier subpoena.)
Clinton’s documents were even more vulnerable to being compromised via her unclassified email account and, according to the FBI, “hostile actors gained access” to some of the information. Yet she was never subjected to a raid, let alone a charge.
Yet, while less glaring as a contradiction than the charges on the possession or handling of classified information, an obstruction charge would allow up to a 20-year sentence and could be brought with misdemeanor charges on the mishandling or retention of classified information.
Thus, an obstruction charge against Trump would be prosecuted in the shadow of Hillary Clinton’s case. In addition to the transfer of top-secret and other classified documents to her private server, Clinton and her staff did not fully cooperate with investigators. During the investigations of her conduct, some of us marveled at the temerity of the Clinton staff in refusing to turn over her laptop and other evidence to State Department and DOJ investigators. The FBI had to cut deals with her aides to secure their cooperation.Later, more classified material was found on the laptop of former congressman Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.), who was married to top Clinton aide Huma Abedin — 49,000 emails potentially relevant to the Clinton investigation.
After Congress sought these emails, Clinton’s staff unilaterally destroyed thousands of emails with BleachBit. Clinton was aware that Congress and the State Department were seeking the emails in 2014. Her lawyers turned over about 30,000 work-related emails to the State Department and deleted 33,000 others while insisting they unilaterally deemed them “personal.”
Garland may be able to make a case against Trump and show that it is indeed distinguishable from the Clinton case and others. What has been alleged is undeniably serious, including the alleged failure to comply with an earlier subpoena and false statements. However, Garland must address the legitimate concerns of millions of Americans that the same office involved in past Trump investigations — with documented instances of false or misleading statements — is leading this new effort. There also is the great concern over the Biden administration charging a prior and possibly future political opponent.
With Hillary Clinton selling “But Her Emails” hats at $30 a pop, Merrick Garland will have to explain the prospect of one politician going to jail while the other goes retail.
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@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
She handed over the servers and cooperated.
He obfuscated, obstructed, and lied to the feds for a solid year.
Turley, today:
Prosecuting Trump for a misdemeanor for possessing or removing classified documents would seem gratuitous, while prosecuting him for a felony would raise questions of biased or selective prosecution. After all, in 2016, Hillary Clinton had not just 113 documents containing classified material but some documents “classified at the Top Secret/Special Access Program level” on her private email servers. (In Trump’s case, the government allegedly found roughly 100 documents in the Mar-a-Lago raid in addition to roughly 150 handled over by the Trump team under an earlier subpoena.)
Clinton’s documents were even more vulnerable to being compromised via her unclassified email account and, according to the FBI, “hostile actors gained access” to some of the information. Yet she was never subjected to a raid, let alone a charge.
Yet, while less glaring as a contradiction than the charges on the possession or handling of classified information, an obstruction charge would allow up to a 20-year sentence and could be brought with misdemeanor charges on the mishandling or retention of classified information.
Thus, an obstruction charge against Trump would be prosecuted in the shadow of Hillary Clinton’s case. In addition to the transfer of top-secret and other classified documents to her private server, Clinton and her staff did not fully cooperate with investigators. During the investigations of her conduct, some of us marveled at the temerity of the Clinton staff in refusing to turn over her laptop and other evidence to State Department and DOJ investigators. The FBI had to cut deals with her aides to secure their cooperation.Later, more classified material was found on the laptop of former congressman Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.), who was married to top Clinton aide Huma Abedin — 49,000 emails potentially relevant to the Clinton investigation.
After Congress sought these emails, Clinton’s staff unilaterally destroyed thousands of emails with BleachBit. Clinton was aware that Congress and the State Department were seeking the emails in 2014. Her lawyers turned over about 30,000 work-related emails to the State Department and deleted 33,000 others while insisting they unilaterally deemed them “personal.”
Garland may be able to make a case against Trump and show that it is indeed distinguishable from the Clinton case and others. What has been alleged is undeniably serious, including the alleged failure to comply with an earlier subpoena and false statements. However, Garland must address the legitimate concerns of millions of Americans that the same office involved in past Trump investigations — with documented instances of false or misleading statements — is leading this new effort. There also is the great concern over the Biden administration charging a prior and possibly future political opponent.
With Hillary Clinton selling “But Her Emails” hats at $30 a pop, Merrick Garland will have to explain the prospect of one politician going to jail while the other goes retail.
@George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
With Hillary Clinton selling “But Her Emails” hats at $30 a pop,
I saw where Marjorie Taylor Greene is selling 'Defund the FBI' hats. Don't know how true it is.
Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka
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@George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
With Hillary Clinton selling “But Her Emails” hats at $30 a pop,
I saw where Marjorie Taylor Greene is selling 'Defund the FBI' hats. Don't know how true it is.
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@George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
With Hillary Clinton selling “But Her Emails” hats at $30 a pop,
I saw where Marjorie Taylor Greene is selling 'Defund the FBI' hats. Don't know how true it is.
@Catseye3 said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
With Hillary Clinton selling “But Her Emails” hats at $30 a pop,
I saw where Marjorie Taylor Greene is selling 'Defund the FBI' hats. Don't know how true it is.
Are you sure it wasn't "Defund the Gazpacho police"?
I was only joking
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@George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
With Hillary Clinton selling “But Her Emails” hats at $30 a pop,
I saw where Marjorie Taylor Greene is selling 'Defund the FBI' hats. Don't know how true it is.
@Catseye3 said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
With Hillary Clinton selling “But Her Emails” hats at $30 a pop,
I saw where Marjorie Taylor Greene is selling 'Defund the FBI' hats. Don't know how true it is.
He said: "At the end of the day you go home to news; you go home to family, you go home to neighbors. The people that you're talking to on a day-to-day basis are listening to the news and hearing these things.
"There's no way, however hard you try and just focus on the work in front of you, that you're not hearing about Marjorie Taylor Greene selling t-shirts to defund the FBI, you're not hearing Senators suggesting the FBI goes into a search site and maybe planted evidence, just because that's what the FBI does. There's no way this isn't creeping around the edges of the conversation of the awareness of all the good men and women of the FBI."
That was Peter "We'll stop it" Strzok
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@Catseye3 said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
With Hillary Clinton selling “But Her Emails” hats at $30 a pop,
I saw where Marjorie Taylor Greene is selling 'Defund the FBI' hats. Don't know how true it is.
Are you sure it wasn't "Defund the Gazpacho police"?
@Doctor-Phibes said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Are you sure it wasn't "Defund the Gazpacho police"?
Come to think of it . . .
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She's not exactly the sharpest cookie in the chandelier.
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@Copper said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@Catseye3 said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Defund the FBI
I think we can all agree that is a great idea.
So in which Family were you a made man?
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@Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Trump just exudes klass in a trailer park kinda of way.
I wonder if his inferiority complex is what makes him so attractive to his MAGA Republican base?
Indirectly yes.
What with we being primates and all, the status games are never too far under the surface. Trump and his base resent the same people, and Trump is often in a position to smite them.
@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Trump just exudes klass in a trailer park kinda of way.
I wonder if his inferiority complex is what makes him so attractive to his MAGA Republican base?
Indirectly yes.
What with we being primates and all, the status games are never too far under the surface. Trump and his base resent the same people, and Trump is often in a position to smite them.
I often find that the people I hate, hate themselves for the same reason I hate them.
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@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@Renauda said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Trump just exudes klass in a trailer park kinda of way.
I wonder if his inferiority complex is what makes him so attractive to his MAGA Republican base?
Indirectly yes.
What with we being primates and all, the status games are never too far under the surface. Trump and his base resent the same people, and Trump is often in a position to smite them.
I often find that the people I hate, hate themselves for the same reason I hate them.
The status differences result in a certain asymmetry between the Trump base and those they resent. The resentment only flows one direction, the other direction is something much more like contempt.
Only non-witches get due process.
- Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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The status differences result in a certain asymmetry between the Trump base and those they resent. The resentment only flows one direction, the other direction is something much more like contempt.
@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The status differences result in a certain asymmetry between the Trump base and those they resent. The resentment only flows one direction, the other direction is something much more like contempt.
And that contempt has been unfair, douchey, and clearly communicated since long before Trump. The reaction against that contempt, which is symptomatic of being human rather than being low status, I’m sure can be framed as the self hatred of the inferiors. But that framing is just more doucheyness and let’s please not pretend otherwise.
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The difference is quite real, not a matter of framing. Nietzsche is pretty good on the subject.
@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The difference is quite real, not a matter of framing. Nietzsche is pretty good on the subject.
Nietzsche would agree with you in this discussion then. Now it’s two against one. I’m not sure I can prevail against the both of you.
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Judge grants Trump request for special master
A federal judge will appoint a special master to sift through nearly 13,000 documents and items the FBI seized from Donald Trump’s Florida residence and identify any that may be protected by attorney-client or executive privilege, according to a court order posted Monday.
U.S. District Judge Aileen M. Cannon wrote in her decision that the Justice Department cannot continue reviewing the materials seized by the FBI at Mar-a-Lago on Aug. 8 or use them in its criminal investigation until the special master concludes his or her assessment.
But she ruled that the Office of the Director of National Intelligence would be allowed to continue its ongoing assessment of the possible risk to national security posed by the removal from government custody of classified documents, some of them related to highly sensitive government and intelligence secrets.In her opinion, Cannon sided with Trump’s legal team and said that the former president does retain some executive privileges after leaving office — a stance that the Justice Department disagrees with.
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Weird since (a) the fat guy isn’t the executive, Jolly’s President is. And (b) the DOJ is part of the executive. “Executive privilege” is generally raised contra Congress.
Hers seems to be a minority viewpoint. Even eccentric.
Probably won’t matter much in practice.
Only non-witches get due process.
- Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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Weird since (a) the fat guy isn’t the executive, Jolly’s President is. And (b) the DOJ is part of the executive. “Executive privilege” is generally raised contra Congress.
Hers seems to be a minority viewpoint. Even eccentric.
Probably won’t matter much in practice.
@jon-nyc
I imagine we'll see a lot of weirdness of this sort before it's all over. People often underestimate the vast tremendous power an ex-president has. Even a knob like this one. Weird distortions may eventuate.That's why I'm paying no attention to the ongoing story. I'll tune back in when something happens.
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@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
And the special master is……
Rudy Giuliani.
lol
Shouldn’t this post be in the dark or inappropriate humor thread?
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@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
And the special master is……
Rudy Giuliani.
lol
Shouldn’t this post be in the dark or inappropriate humor thread?
