Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed

[Aqua Letifer]

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

I don't walk knowingly into rhetorical traps.

Want to explain, Lucy?

This is a rough hierarchy of reasons for why someone might get shit-canned from their job, from least to most serious:

1. Arbitrary reasons
2. Not being a good fit
3. Causing problems for the company in some way
4. Breaking company policy
5. Breaking the law

If you want to make a case for firing someone based on their voting for a Democrat in a presidential election, rant and rave all you want, but the highest up you're ever going to get is #3. You cannot legally set a company policy in which you have to vote for a particular party in order to keep your job. And obviously voting for a Democrat is not illegal.

A whole lot of people out there have to provide documentation to prove COVID-19 vaccination status as a requirement for employment. Yes, those can be easily forged, yes such a policy might be considered a HIPAA violation in saner times, yes the wisdom of even having such a policy is dubious etc., etc., but at the end of the day, it's a company policy directly tied to employment.

What you want to say is that the company policy is nonsense and these people should be given their jobs back.

What I'm saying is, you seem to want your tribe's people to get away with violating company policies so long as those policies are stupid, but for the other tribe, you're okay with them losing their jobs, even when they didn't break company policy or the law. So this sounds pretty close to hypocrisy to me. The only way it wouldn't be is if you thought firing someone for voting Democrat was just as fucked up as firing someone for not getting vaxxed.

As for me, I don't give a shit about these people or their predicament. There are far more arbitrary, discriminatory and flat out fucked up reasons why people lose their jobs every day. This doesn't even scratch the surface of unfair.

[LuFins Dad]

Speaking of vaxxed vs unvaxxed, the Community Band that I'm a member of had established a policy last year requiring vaccines and boosters (with documented medical exemptions allowed). This year the board voted for a new policy... You have to be fully vaccinated, but the booster is not mandatory...

I quit the board over that call. I disagreed with last year's policy, but understand it. This one? Nah...

[Jolly]

1. Have I ever said people should be fired because they are a Demonrat?
2. Political affiliation is a choice that carries no physical risk. People gave died or have long-term health problems because of the vaccination.

Now, if the COVID vaccine actually did the job of a traditional vaccine and conferred immunity, we could make an argument for the greater good. But it doesn't.

So why should people even protected government employees continu to pay for bad science?

[Aqua Letifer]

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

1. Have I ever said people should be fired because they are a Demonrat?

That's precisely what I'm asking. Which you have refused to answer. So I really don't know. And what I said was, you'd be okay with them being fired. That's different from saying you think they should all be fired.

2. Political affiliation is a choice that carries no physical risk. People gave died or have long-term health problems because of the vaccination.

Let's compare COVID health problems to COVID vaccine health problems.

[Jolly]

IOW, just rhetorical bullshit. While died-in-the-wool Democrats could certainly be accused of being brain dead, do you think anybody hires and fires based on political affiliation?

As for COVID health problems vs. COVID vaccine health problems, all I can tell you is that in the current mortality numbers, vaxxed vs. unvaxxed are getting pretty durn close to equal.

And since it is becoming increasingly apparent that the vaccine we have is not keeping people from dying, and the fact that COVID is endemic and the fact that many people who were fired were in healthcare or in the military (two jobs where people are needed badly) what do you have against people getting their jobs back?

[Doctor Phibes]

I thought being vaccinated reduced the risk of death?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-compare-covid-deaths-for-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people/

[Aqua Letifer]

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

IOW, just rhetorical bullshit. While died-in-the-wool Democrats could certainly be accused of being brain dead, do you think anybody hires and fires based on political affiliation?

There were posts on this forum about terminating employment due to voting Democrat in the presidential election. There were stories about it after both Obama and Biden were elected. Your response, if I remember correctly, was, "elections have consequences." Fair enough if I remember incorrectly, that's entirely possible.

As for COVID health problems vs. COVID vaccine health problems, all I can tell you is that in the current mortality numbers, vaxxed vs. unvaxxed are getting pretty durn close to equal.

That wasn't the case when these policies were implemented. Not even close to the case.

[Jolly]

@Aqua-Letifer said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

IOW, just rhetorical bullshit. While died-in-the-wool Democrats could certainly be accused of being brain dead, do you think anybody hires and fires based on political affiliation?

There were posts on this forum about terminating employment due to voting Democrat in the presidential election. There were stories about it after both Obama and Biden were elected. Your response, if I remember correctly, was, "elections have consequences." Fair enough if I remember incorrectly, that's entirely possible.

As for COVID health problems vs. COVID vaccine health problems, all I can tell you is that in the current mortality numbers, vaxxed vs. unvaxxed are getting pretty durn close to equal.

That wasn't the case when these policies were implemented. Not even close to the case.

When the policies were first enacted there was some question as to vaccine effectiveness. As the policies were implemented, Omicron became dominant and we started to notice vaccinated people becoming ill. As the BA-2 variant has emerged, now we see mortality rates in the over 65 crowd starting to become close to the same for the vaccinated and the unvaccinated. Yet, people are still not being hired or losing their jobs.

I'm surprised you wish to align yourself with a stupid policy, that no longer reflects reality.

[Jolly]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

I thought being vaccinated reduced the risk of death?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-compare-covid-deaths-for-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people/

Lad, this ain't March.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

I'm surprised you wish to align yourself with a stupid policy, that no longer reflects reality.

I'm not. I'm saying I don't care. If you can be fired with or without cause at any given moment, then what the hell difference does it make? People get fired for way less, daily.

If I was going to get irate over stupid reasons to be fired, I'd start with the arbitrary cases, not ones where employees knowingly ignored company policy. That's what makes all of this ridiculous.

[Jolly]

@Aqua-Letifer said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

I'm surprised you wish to align yourself with a stupid policy, that no longer reflects reality.

I'm not. I'm saying I don't care. If you can be fired with or without cause at any given moment, then what the hell difference does it make? People get fired for way less, daily.

If I was going to get irate over stupid reasons to be fired, I'd start with the arbitrary cases, not ones where employees knowingly ignored company policy. That's what makes all of this ridiculous.

Even in At-Will states, there are still some employment protections.
More in other states.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Aqua-Letifer said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

I'm surprised you wish to align yourself with a stupid policy, that no longer reflects reality.

I'm not. I'm saying I don't care. If you can be fired with or without cause at any given moment, then what the hell difference does it make? People get fired for way less, daily.

If I was going to get irate over stupid reasons to be fired, I'd start with the arbitrary cases, not ones where employees knowingly ignored company policy. That's what makes all of this ridiculous.

Even in At-Will states, there are still some employment protections.
More in other states.

So you don't believe in mask or vaccine effectiveness, but you do think employee protections actually exist? I've got some stories along with a bridge to sell you.

[Jolly]

@Aqua-Letifer said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Aqua-Letifer said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

I'm surprised you wish to align yourself with a stupid policy, that no longer reflects reality.

I'm not. I'm saying I don't care. If you can be fired with or without cause at any given moment, then what the hell difference does it make? People get fired for way less, daily.

If I was going to get irate over stupid reasons to be fired, I'd start with the arbitrary cases, not ones where employees knowingly ignored company policy. That's what makes all of this ridiculous.

Even in At-Will states, there are still some employment protections.
More in other states.

So you don't believe in mask or vaccine effectiveness, but you do think employee protections actually exist? I've got some stories along with a bridge to sell you.

Ok, boss. Slap one of your female employees on the ass and then fire her.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Aqua-Letifer said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Aqua-Letifer said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

I'm surprised you wish to align yourself with a stupid policy, that no longer reflects reality.

I'm not. I'm saying I don't care. If you can be fired with or without cause at any given moment, then what the hell difference does it make? People get fired for way less, daily.

If I was going to get irate over stupid reasons to be fired, I'd start with the arbitrary cases, not ones where employees knowingly ignored company policy. That's what makes all of this ridiculous.

Even in At-Will states, there are still some employment protections.
More in other states.

So you don't believe in mask or vaccine effectiveness, but you do think employee protections actually exist? I've got some stories along with a bridge to sell you.

Ok, boss. Slap one of your female employees on the ass and then fire her.

I see your sexual harassment and raise you a pregnancy. While she was in the middle of her company-approved maternity leave. You don't like that one I have plenty others.

[Jolly]

So, tell me what happened.

[taiwan_girl]

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

I thought being vaccinated reduced the risk of death?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-compare-covid-deaths-for-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people/

Lad, this ain't March.

IF that is the case, why should people who refused the vaccine back in March, Feb, Jan, etc. be given their jobs back?

[Doctor Phibes]

@Aqua-Letifer said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Aqua-Letifer said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Aqua-Letifer said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

I'm surprised you wish to align yourself with a stupid policy, that no longer reflects reality.

I'm not. I'm saying I don't care. If you can be fired with or without cause at any given moment, then what the hell difference does it make? People get fired for way less, daily.

If I was going to get irate over stupid reasons to be fired, I'd start with the arbitrary cases, not ones where employees knowingly ignored company policy. That's what makes all of this ridiculous.

Even in At-Will states, there are still some employment protections.
More in other states.

So you don't believe in mask or vaccine effectiveness, but you do think employee protections actually exist? I've got some stories along with a bridge to sell you.

Ok, boss. Slap one of your female employees on the ass and then fire her.

I see your sexual harassment and raise you a pregnancy. While she was in the middle of her company-approved maternity leave. You don't like that one I have plenty others.

I have a close family member that was fired shortly after she asked her boss for a reference as part of the child adoption process.

Not in America, obviously, but it could well have been.

[Jolly]

@taiwan_girl said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Jolly said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Vaxxed vs. Unvaxxed:

I thought being vaccinated reduced the risk of death?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-compare-covid-deaths-for-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people/

Lad, this ain't March.

IF that is the case, why should people who refused the vaccine back in March, Feb, Jan, etc. be given their jobs back?

Because we know better now.

We used to kill witches by pressing large stones on them, We don't do much of that now, either.

[Horace]

If I hadn't gotten married, it is likely I'd have allowed myself to be fired at that time. Whether to get vaccinated would have been a different decision. Not supplying proof of vaccination to my employer and accepting the consequences, would have still been on the table, regardless of vax status.

[Jolly]

My DIL told Fresenius to fire her if they wanted to. Let somebody else do the kidney dialysis work.