If electric cars have to pay road taxes...
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@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
Secondly, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. You know very well the government has the right to license bicycles and they have the right to make some of them or all of them pay a road use tax.
True or false?
Sure. Just like the government can decide to take your guns away if it wants to. Doesn't mean it's sound policy.
@Aqua-Letifer said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
Secondly, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. You know very well the government has the right to license bicycles and they have the right to make some of them or all of them pay a road use tax.
True or false?
Sure. Just like the government can decide to take your guns away if it wants to. Doesn't mean it's sound policy.
Second Amendment.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
Why not cyclists?
You cycle on the road, you help pay for the road.
Talk to me once you've actually looked into this. Where infrastructure money comes from, what it needs to pay for and why, who pays for it.
A bump over $227M in fuel taxes in this state (Louisiana) plus prededicated TIME funds and one-time Federal monies.
Now, what does that matter? If we are going to tax electric cars (we are) because they are using the public roads for conveyance of people and goods, yet pay no fuel tax, why can't we tax bicycles? At the very least we have the power to require a license plate to ride a bicycle on a public road. Once the tag is purchased, a tax bill for road use can be sent to the tag owner's address.
Or, you can choose to ride without one, at which time if arrested, you're looking at $500 or 30 days in the grey bar hotel.
I'll start listening to your state about bicycle policies after it stops becoming the second deadliest in the entire country for cyclists.
Another fun fact: 89% of your state's cyclists already own a car. Which is much higher than the number of your non-cyclists who do.
What you're suggesting is clearly motivated by the things you don't like.
Shucks, my daughter ran over a cyclist. Tore that sucker up. Of course, he wasn't bothering to obey any traffic rules - those are just suggestions - and decided he could cross a four lane anywhere he damn well pleased. Want to go into the tort laws here concerning cyclists? I'll wait.
Let's do it. Show me the numbers regarding citations for cars vs cyclists in traffic incidents involving both. Then show me the guilty vs not guilty verdicts for cyclists when cases go to court. Just in your state will be fine.
Now, as for things I don't like...That matters not one whit. We're talking money for roads and where to get it. If fuel taxes are making up a significant part of the highway budget and electric cars pay no fuel tax, the state has decided owners of electric cars will pay $110/year, in addition to license and inspection fees.
Now, bicycles pay nothing.
I thought we were talking about cyclists, which contribute more per person to your infrastructure funds than your non-cyclists do. I just told you that.
Explain to me why bicycles cannot be required to be licensed? And then explain why the state can't collect a yearly fee or tax to ride the aforementioned bicycle on a public road?
Because if you were serious about fixing the problem, you wouldn't place it at the feet of a community that does more to fix it than your own.
Tell me what the tort law for cyclists is in Louisiana.
What the hell difference does it make when in virtually every incident the cyclist is found to be at fault?
I asked a question. Care to answer it?
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
Why not cyclists?
You cycle on the road, you help pay for the road.
Talk to me once you've actually looked into this. Where infrastructure money comes from, what it needs to pay for and why, who pays for it.
A bump over $227M in fuel taxes in this state (Louisiana) plus prededicated TIME funds and one-time Federal monies.
Now, what does that matter? If we are going to tax electric cars (we are) because they are using the public roads for conveyance of people and goods, yet pay no fuel tax, why can't we tax bicycles? At the very least we have the power to require a license plate to ride a bicycle on a public road. Once the tag is purchased, a tax bill for road use can be sent to the tag owner's address.
Or, you can choose to ride without one, at which time if arrested, you're looking at $500 or 30 days in the grey bar hotel.
I'll start listening to your state about bicycle policies after it stops becoming the second deadliest in the entire country for cyclists.
Another fun fact: 89% of your state's cyclists already own a car. Which is much higher than the number of your non-cyclists who do.
What you're suggesting is clearly motivated by the things you don't like.
Shucks, my daughter ran over a cyclist. Tore that sucker up. Of course, he wasn't bothering to obey any traffic rules - those are just suggestions - and decided he could cross a four lane anywhere he damn well pleased. Want to go into the tort laws here concerning cyclists? I'll wait.
Let's do it. Show me the numbers regarding citations for cars vs cyclists in traffic incidents involving both. Then show me the guilty vs not guilty verdicts for cyclists when cases go to court. Just in your state will be fine.
Now, as for things I don't like...That matters not one whit. We're talking money for roads and where to get it. If fuel taxes are making up a significant part of the highway budget and electric cars pay no fuel tax, the state has decided owners of electric cars will pay $110/year, in addition to license and inspection fees.
Now, bicycles pay nothing.
I thought we were talking about cyclists, which contribute more per person to your infrastructure funds than your non-cyclists do. I just told you that.
Explain to me why bicycles cannot be required to be licensed? And then explain why the state can't collect a yearly fee or tax to ride the aforementioned bicycle on a public road?
Because if you were serious about fixing the problem, you wouldn't place it at the feet of a community that does more to fix it than your own.
Tell me what the tort law for cyclists is in Louisiana.
What the hell difference does it make when in virtually every incident the cyclist is found to be at fault?
I asked a question. Care to answer it?
No, because it wouldn't go both ways and it's not germane to anything.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
Secondly, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. You know very well the government has the right to license bicycles and they have the right to make some of them or all of them pay a road use tax.
True or false?
Sure. Just like the government can decide to take your guns away if it wants to. Doesn't mean it's sound policy.
Second Amendment.
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
Secondly, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. You know very well the government has the right to license bicycles and they have the right to make some of them or all of them pay a road use tax.
True or false?
Sure. Just like the government can decide to take your guns away if it wants to. Doesn't mean it's sound policy.
Second Amendment.
Yeah we've never overturned those before.
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@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
Secondly, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. You know very well the government has the right to license bicycles and they have the right to make some of them or all of them pay a road use tax.
True or false?
Sure. Just like the government can decide to take your guns away if it wants to. Doesn't mean it's sound policy.
Second Amendment.
Yeah we've never overturned those before.
@Aqua-Letifer said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
Secondly, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. You know very well the government has the right to license bicycles and they have the right to make some of them or all of them pay a road use tax.
True or false?
Sure. Just like the government can decide to take your guns away if it wants to. Doesn't mean it's sound policy.
Second Amendment.
Yeah we've never overturned those before.
That's one you damn well won't. Not unless you're prepared to bleed.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion.
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@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@jon-nyc said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
If you were to compare the relative wear on road surfaces to the expense of tagging and tracking all the nation’s bicycles I can’t imagine a dispassionate observer deciding it was a worthwhile endeavor.
Depends upon how much money is involved.
That’s exactly my point. If you were to calculate the actual monetary cost of bicycle wear on roads I dare suspect it would be infinitesimal.
@jon-nyc said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@jon-nyc said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
If you were to compare the relative wear on road surfaces to the expense of tagging and tracking all the nation’s bicycles I can’t imagine a dispassionate observer deciding it was a worthwhile endeavor.
Depends upon how much money is involved.
That’s exactly my point. If you were to calculate the actual monetary cost of bicycle wear on roads I dare suspect it would be infinitesimal.
Perhaps. But the money may not. And you can always wag the
of bike lanes, etc., under their nose, whether the government actually builds them or not.It's about the benjamins, as always.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Aqua-Letifer said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Jolly said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
Secondly, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. You know very well the government has the right to license bicycles and they have the right to make some of them or all of them pay a road use tax.
True or false?
Sure. Just like the government can decide to take your guns away if it wants to. Doesn't mean it's sound policy.
Second Amendment.
Yeah we've never overturned those before.
That's one you damn well won't. Not unless you're prepared to bleed.
Shouldn’t we be encouraging people to cycle?
It’s healthy, pollution free, and reduces road congestion.
Taxation is something you do to dissuade people from doing something.
I was only joking
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Shouldn’t we be encouraging people to cycle?
It’s healthy, pollution free, and reduces road congestion.
Taxation is something you do to dissuade people from doing something.
Not to mention the improvement in fitness and health of the riders.
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Shouldn’t we be encouraging people to cycle?
It’s healthy, pollution free, and reduces road congestion.
Taxation is something you do to dissuade people from doing something.
@Doctor-Phibes said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
Taxation is something you do to dissuade people from doing something.
Well, in a narrow sense you're right.
But taxation does more than discourage people from things, like enjoying national parks, funding
police andschools.... -
@Doctor-Phibes said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
Taxation is something you do to dissuade people from doing something.
Well, in a narrow sense you're right.
But taxation does more than discourage people from things, like enjoying national parks, funding
police andschools....@George-K said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Doctor-Phibes said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
Taxation is something you do to dissuade people from doing something.
Well, in a narrow sense you're right.
But taxation does more than discourage people from things, like enjoying national parks, funding
police andschools....I’m already paying tax for the two cars I own. Why should I pay again for the bike?
And again, we should be encouraging cycling. The tax won’t do that.
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The way to go on taxing electric cars is to switch to a universal tax on miles driven.
Use odometer reading. Now, I realize that this would only work on an overall federal level, since you would not know where people are driving, then impossible to break it down by state and local.
Other alternative would be to have the tax built into the charging station. Most people are not going to plug there car into a regular house socket (though of course some will). But, regular charging stations, whether in public or in your garage would have an add on cost for the electricity when charging that would be the equivalent to the gas tax.
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Shouldn’t we be encouraging people to cycle?
It’s healthy, pollution free, and reduces road congestion.
Taxation is something you do to dissuade people from doing something.
@Doctor-Phibes said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
Shouldn’t we be encouraging people to cycle?
It’s healthy, pollution free, and reduces road congestion.
Taxation is something you do to dissuade people from doing something.
Healthy? √
Pollution free? Uh, dude. About those bean burritos...
Reduces road congestion? Depends. On a shared road, bikes aren't as fast as cars, except in congested urban environments.Taxation for road use? The fuel tax hasn't seemed to make people park their cars.
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The way to go on taxing electric cars is to switch to a universal tax on miles driven.
Use odometer reading. Now, I realize that this would only work on an overall federal level, since you would not know where people are driving, then impossible to break it down by state and local.
Other alternative would be to have the tax built into the charging station. Most people are not going to plug there car into a regular house socket (though of course some will). But, regular charging stations, whether in public or in your garage would have an add on cost for the electricity when charging that would be the equivalent to the gas tax.
@taiwan_girl said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
The way to go on taxing electric cars is to switch to a universal tax on miles driven.
Use odometer reading. Now, I realize that this would only work on an overall federal level, since you would not know where people are driving, then impossible to break it down by state and local.
Other alternative would be to have the tax built into the charging station. Most people are not going to plug there car into a regular house socket (though of course some will). But, regular charging stations, whether in public or in your garage would have an add on cost for the electricity when charging that would be the equivalent to the gas tax.
Miles driven is invasive and corruptible, plus it might cost more to administer than it would take in. Tax at charging station is the only real solution. We already pay a plethora of taxes on home electricity.
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@taiwan_girl said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
The way to go on taxing electric cars is to switch to a universal tax on miles driven.
Use odometer reading. Now, I realize that this would only work on an overall federal level, since you would not know where people are driving, then impossible to break it down by state and local.
Other alternative would be to have the tax built into the charging station. Most people are not going to plug there car into a regular house socket (though of course some will). But, regular charging stations, whether in public or in your garage would have an add on cost for the electricity when charging that would be the equivalent to the gas tax.
Miles driven is invasive and corruptible, plus it might cost more to administer than it would take in. Tax at charging station is the only real solution. We already pay a plethora of taxes on home electricity.
@Mik There should be a way to make things work, however it is done.
Maybe recognize if the resident voltage is >220V, there would be an extra charge. I dont think that any things in the house normally run above 220V
I dont know, just putting ideas out there. Because using only the gas tax will not work long term.
I dont think an extra price on the cost of an electric car is fair - with cars, I think the more you drive, the more you should pay a usage fee.
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I'm happy for them to put a tax on the electrical charging point for bicycles, too.
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@Mik There should be a way to make things work, however it is done.
Maybe recognize if the resident voltage is >220V, there would be an extra charge. I dont think that any things in the house normally run above 220V
I dont know, just putting ideas out there. Because using only the gas tax will not work long term.
I dont think an extra price on the cost of an electric car is fair - with cars, I think the more you drive, the more you should pay a usage fee.
@taiwan_girl said in If electric cars have to pay road taxes...:
@Mik There should be a way to make things work, however it is done.
Maybe recognize if the resident voltage is >220V, there would be an extra charge. I dont think that any things in the house normally run above 220V
I dont know, just putting ideas out there. Because using only the gas tax will not work long term.
I dont think an extra price on the cost of an electric car is fair - with cars, I think the more you drive, the more you should pay a usage fee.
Electric ranges and dryers both run 220, at least here.
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If we're taxing cyclists, why not pedestrians?
In the unlikely event that an American ventures outdoors without the security afforded by his car, he should be made to pay!
I was only joking
