Overcharging

[Jolly]

What happens if 2nd degree murder doesn't stick? Some words from McCarthy...

https://dailycaller.com/2020/06/05/andrew-mccarthy-blasts-rosenstein-and-over-charging-in-the-floyd-case/

[jon-nyc]

I expressed just such a concern next door.

[jon-nyc]

McCarthy’s take in print:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/new-floyd-murder-charges-will-be-tough-to-prove-and-may-imperil-good-cops/?utm_source=recirc-mobile&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=top-stories&utm_term=fifth

[Horace]

Our Overton window has been pushed past the point where there is such a thing as overcharging a racist cop.

[jon-nyc]

Depends on the jury

Jury selection will be interesting. And maybe venue selection.

[Horace]

I'm not talking about what an isolated jury might find after having due process of the law hammered into their heads and maybe even buying into that responsibility. I am talking about our social ideas. And of course about the rioting that will commence if the jury comes to a verdict that our overton window has been pushed past.

[jon-nyc]

No, no, no. Progressives will get mad at Ellison for overreaching and dive into his metoo issues that they ignored in the last election.

[Horace]

I'm not sure if you're being serious but no, the rioting mobs will not blame overcharging if the verdict is not to their liking.

[Copper]

@jon-nyc said in Overcharging:

Depends on the jury

Jury selection will be interesting. And maybe venue selection.

Somewhere where they haven't seen the video.

[Mik]

The mob demands first degree murder which is ludicrous in its face.

[Horace]

This is what the left has wrought. Bloodthirsty vengeance as a cultural response.

And now the lilly white, ineffectual little twerps of the left want to all but disband our whole police force. They'd be the first to be screaming at the onset of lawlessness.

[George K]

Up-charging the incident is going to make a conviction that much more difficult. Judges are very specific about jury instructions indicating what the actual charges are, rather than what the jury might think they should be.

If the jury acquits, and that's looking like it might happen, can you imagine the mayhem?

[Jolly]

@George-K said in Overcharging:

Up-charging the incident is going to make a conviction that much more difficult. Judges are very specific about jury instructions indicating what the actual charges are, rather than what the jury might think they should be.

If the jury acquits, and that's looking like it might happen, can you imagine the mayhem?

Especially if the police say "it's all yours, we're protecting the police station".

[LuFins Dad]

Levin was saying Murder 2 last week, and I tend to agree with his reasoning. If it had been 2 minutes, it would be a hard sell, but 8? Nah.

[Jolly]

I may be wrong, but doesn't Murder 2 have to have an element of intent?

[LuFins Dad]

“Second degree murder is generally defined as intentional murder that lacks premeditation, is intended to only cause bodily harm, and demonstrates an extreme indifference to human life.”

Floyd’s unconscious five minutes in. Every second after that is intended to cause harm and demonstrates an extreme indifference to human life.

[Horace]

I can see murder 2.

[Mik]

But the killing was still not provably intentional. If I were on the jury I would find 2nd degree a stretch.

[Horace]

I suppose any member of the jury is going to have the social consequences on their minds. There is a clear promise of a widespread violent uprising, bought and paid for by the left, if the verdict isn't as demanded.

[Jolly]

@Mik said in Overcharging:

But the killing was still not provably intentional. If I were on the jury I would find 2nd degree a stretch.

IIRC, choke holds are allowed in Minneapolis. And folks, people will scream most anything while being restrained. The cop screwed up by not checking on his suspect's health, which is negligence. He used too much force, which is criminal.

You can nail him for Murder 3 pretty easily, IMO. Unless the fix is in, Murder 2 will make for a very interesting trial.