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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Puzzle time - Pi = 4

Puzzle time - Pi = 4

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  • KlausK Online
    KlausK Online
    Klaus
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    We know that the circumference of a circle of radius 1 is 2*Pi.

    I'm going to prove that the circumference of that circle is 8, hence Pi = 4.

    To this end, I construct a series of lines that give better and better approximations of the circle.

    I start with the square around the circle. Clearly it has length 4. Let's call this s-1.

    Then I fold the edges in like in the yellow line here. Let's call this s-2. It still has length 4.
    f619543e-1862-456d-87b6-bb1ebc746036-image.png

    Now I repeat this process of folding in the edges, giving better and better approximations of the circle.

    d44443b0-041c-44b0-824f-c5aa8f9ff61d-image.png

    The limit of s-n, as n goes to infinity literally is the circle: It's distance from the circle is 0 at every point.

    Also, the limit of the length of s-n as n goes to infinity is 4 - which is trivial, since the length of each s-i is 4.

    Hence Pi = 4.

    Where's the error in this proof?

    Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
    • KlausK Klaus

      We know that the circumference of a circle of radius 1 is 2*Pi.

      I'm going to prove that the circumference of that circle is 8, hence Pi = 4.

      To this end, I construct a series of lines that give better and better approximations of the circle.

      I start with the square around the circle. Clearly it has length 4. Let's call this s-1.

      Then I fold the edges in like in the yellow line here. Let's call this s-2. It still has length 4.
      f619543e-1862-456d-87b6-bb1ebc746036-image.png

      Now I repeat this process of folding in the edges, giving better and better approximations of the circle.

      d44443b0-041c-44b0-824f-c5aa8f9ff61d-image.png

      The limit of s-n, as n goes to infinity literally is the circle: It's distance from the circle is 0 at every point.

      Also, the limit of the length of s-n as n goes to infinity is 4 - which is trivial, since the length of each s-i is 4.

      Hence Pi = 4.

      Where's the error in this proof?

      Aqua LetiferA Offline
      Aqua LetiferA Offline
      Aqua Letifer
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      @Klaus said in Puzzle time - Pi = 4:

      We know that the circumference of a circle of radius 1 is 2*Pi.

      I'm going to prove that the circumference of that circle is 8, hence Pi = 4.

      To this end, I construct a series of lines that give better and better approximations of the circle.

      I start with the square around the circle. Clearly it has length 4. Let's call this s-1.

      Then I fold the edges in like in the yellow line here. Let's call this s-2. It still has length 4.
      f619543e-1862-456d-87b6-bb1ebc746036-image.png

      Now I repeat this process of folding in the edges, giving better and better approximations of the circle.

      d44443b0-041c-44b0-824f-c5aa8f9ff61d-image.png

      The limit of s-n, as n goes to infinity literally is the circle: It's distance from the circle is 0 at every point.

      Also, the limit of the length of s-n as n goes to infinity is 4 - which is trivial, since the length of each s-i is 4.

      Hence Pi = 4.

      Where's the error in this proof?

      Shit son, I posted this in the OG TNCR way back in the day.

      Please love yourself.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • KlausK Online
        KlausK Online
        Klaus
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Well, I guess it's safe to assume that we all forgot about it in the meantime 🙂

        1 Reply Last reply
        • HoraceH Online
          HoraceH Online
          Horace
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Puzzle time = 4 + pi

          Education is extremely important.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
            #5

            Who needs Pythagoras when sqrt(2)=2?

            "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
            -Cormac McCarthy

            1 Reply Last reply
            • LarryL Offline
              LarryL Offline
              Larry
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Mmmmm........pi......

              1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                #7

                I guess the formal answer is to actually do the arithmetic on the Riemann sums. The area under the triangular approximations converges to zero but the ratio of the path lengths stays constant.

                "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                -Cormac McCarthy

                KlausK 1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                  I guess the formal answer is to actually do the arithmetic on the Riemann sums. The area under the triangular approximations converges to zero but the ratio of the path lengths stays constant.

                  KlausK Online
                  KlausK Online
                  Klaus
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  @jon-nyc said in Puzzle time - Pi = 4:

                  I guess the formal answer is to actually do the arithmetic on the Riemann sums. The area under the triangular approximations converges to zero but the ratio of the path lengths stays constant.

                  Nope. I made an error in my "proof" that can be pointed out quite succinctly and precisely.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • KlausK Online
                    KlausK Online
                    Klaus
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    OK, maybe not a very popular kind of puzzle lol. Anyway, here's the solution:

                    click to show

                    It is true that the limit of s-n is the circle.

                    It is also true that the limit of the length of s-n is 4.

                    However, what we need here is not the limit of the length of s-n, but
                    rather the length of the limit of s-n, and there is no reason to assume that they are the same.

                    So, it does matter where you take the limit.

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