Meanwhile in Germany...
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Whether Germany’s defensive stockpile is “enough” depends on whether who/what attempts to invade it, and how much stock it puts in the US’ security guarantee. Some assumptions had to be made in those regards. Now we are just retroactively arguing over whether those assumptions were correct.
@Axtremus said in Meanwhile in Germany...:
Whether Germany’s defensive stockpile is “enough” depends on whether who/what attempts to invade it, and how much stock it puts in the US’ security guarantee. Some assumptions had to be made in those regards. Now we are just retroactively arguing over whether those assumptions were correct.
Fulda Gap, baby....
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@Jolly said in Meanwhile in Germany...:
Tapped out...
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bundeswehr-arms-deliveries-to-ukraine-reached-a-limit/a-61418152
The "reached a limit" thing is a convenient lie.
We have ample things that we could give to the Ukraine right now, such as 100 Marder tanks the Ukraine requested. The weapons vendors have already made offers to resupply very quickly. Recently it has come to light that we also have around 100 older Leopard tanks that are not in active duty that could be given to the Ukraine very quickly.
The sad truth is that they don't want to give more weapons to the Ukraine (apart from the old GDR rubbish we conveniently disposed that way). They are trying to formulate it with lies such as this one, or they try to create a fog of "this is all secret so we can't say anything". But we could do much more to help the Ukraine. Instead, we talk about mandatory COVID vaccinations all day, or about solar panels and stuff - and look in a different direction.
I'm angry. It's pathetic. We would deserve to be attacked and nobody else gives a damn about it.
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@Jolly said in Meanwhile in Germany...:
Tapped out...
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bundeswehr-arms-deliveries-to-ukraine-reached-a-limit/a-61418152
The "reached a limit" thing is a convenient lie.
We have ample things that we could give to the Ukraine right now, such as 100 Marder tanks the Ukraine requested. The weapons vendors have already made offers to resupply very quickly. Recently it has come to light that we also have around 100 older Leopard tanks that are not in active duty that could be given to the Ukraine very quickly.
The sad truth is that they don't want to give more weapons to the Ukraine (apart from the old GDR rubbish we conveniently disposed that way). They are trying to formulate it with lies such as this one, or they try to create a fog of "this is all secret so we can't say anything". But we could do much more to help the Ukraine. Instead, we talk about mandatory COVID vaccinations all day, or about solar panels and stuff - and look in a different direction.
I'm angry. It's pathetic. We would deserve to be attacked and nobody else gives a damn about it.
@Klaus said in Meanwhile in Germany...:
@Jolly said in Meanwhile in Germany...:
Tapped out...
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bundeswehr-arms-deliveries-to-ukraine-reached-a-limit/a-61418152
The "reached a limit" thing is a convenient lie.
We have ample things that we could give to the Ukraine right now, such as 100 Marder tanks the Ukraine requested. The weapons vendors have already made offers to resupply very quickly. Recently it has come to light that we also have around 100 older Leopard tanks that are not in active duty that could be given to the Ukraine very quickly.
The sad truth is that they don't want to give more weapons to the Ukraine (apart from the old GDR rubbish we conveniently disposed that way). They are trying to formulate it with lies such as this one, or they try to create a fog of "this is all secret so we can't say anything". But we could do much more to help the Ukraine. Instead, we talk about mandatory COVID vaccinations all day, or about solar panels and stuff - and look in a different direction.
I'm angry. It's pathetic. We would deserve to be attacked and nobody else gives a damn about it.
Klaus, in your opinion, is that attitude that angers you aligned with the messaging of "main stream media" in Germany?
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@Klaus said in Meanwhile in Germany...:
@Jolly said in Meanwhile in Germany...:
Tapped out...
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bundeswehr-arms-deliveries-to-ukraine-reached-a-limit/a-61418152
The "reached a limit" thing is a convenient lie.
We have ample things that we could give to the Ukraine right now, such as 100 Marder tanks the Ukraine requested. The weapons vendors have already made offers to resupply very quickly. Recently it has come to light that we also have around 100 older Leopard tanks that are not in active duty that could be given to the Ukraine very quickly.
The sad truth is that they don't want to give more weapons to the Ukraine (apart from the old GDR rubbish we conveniently disposed that way). They are trying to formulate it with lies such as this one, or they try to create a fog of "this is all secret so we can't say anything". But we could do much more to help the Ukraine. Instead, we talk about mandatory COVID vaccinations all day, or about solar panels and stuff - and look in a different direction.
I'm angry. It's pathetic. We would deserve to be attacked and nobody else gives a damn about it.
Klaus, in your opinion, is that attitude that angers you aligned with the messaging of "main stream media" in Germany?
@Horace said in Meanwhile in Germany...:
Klaus, in your opinion, is that attitude that angers you aligned with the messaging of "main stream media" in Germany?
It's not so simple. The discussions are not along the usual party lines.
The two most "extreme" parties of relevance, the Left Party and the AfD, are in a strange alliance in that many of them are "Putin Versteher" - people who can "understand" Putin, who think we angered Putin too much by extending NATO, who always form sentence of the form "What Russia does isn't good BUT ...".
Then there's a very large percentage of the population who are scared of WW3 and don't want us to be involved in this war at all.
Media-wise, the situation isn't as one-sided as in other issues (e.g. it was pretty one-sided with regard to COVID stuff). There's one major news organization, Springer, that I'd classify on the "Let's help Ukraine more" side and is rather critical of the government. The rest of the media, including the publicly funded ones, are more supportive of the government.
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Apparently we have now reluctantly agreed to deliver Gepard tanks.
Which is, from what I understand, just stupid from a military perspective.
The tanks themselves are quite powerful, but apparently they are among the most complicated pieces of tech ever. High maintenance. Takes many months of training to operate.
The Marder tanks the Ukraine requested would have been much more helpful.
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OK, finally some transparency. There's now a list of what we have delivered to Ukraine, and what we plan to deliver.
https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/themen/krieg-in-der-ukraine/lieferungen-ukraine-2054514
Delivered so far:
3.000 Patronen „Panzerfaust 3“ zuzüglich 900 Griffstücke
14.900 Panzerabwehrminen
500 Fliegerabwehrraketen STINGER
2.700 Fliegerfäuste STRELA
16 Millionen Schuss Handwaffenmunition
50 Bunkerfäuste
100 Maschinengewehre MG 3 mit 500 Ersatzrohren und Verschlüssen
100.000 Handgranaten
5.300 Sprengladungen
100.000 Meter Sprengschnur und 100.000 Sprengkapseln
350.000 Zünder
23.000 Gefechtshelme
15 Paletten Bekleidung
178 Kraftfahrzeuge (Lkw, Kleinbusse, Geländewagen)
100 Zelte
12 Stromerzeuger
6 Paletten Material für Kampfmittelbeseitigung
125 Doppelfernrohre
1.200 Krankenhausbetten
18 Paletten Sanitätsmaterial, 60 OP-Leuchten
Schutzbekleidung, OP-Masken
10.000 Schlafsäcke
600 Schießbrillen
1 Radiofrequenzsystem
3.000 Feldfernsprecher mit 5.000 Rollen Feldkabel und Trageausstattung
1 Feldlazarett (gemeinsames Projekt mit Estland)
353 Nachtsichtbrillen
4 elektronische Drohnenabwehrgeräte
165 Ferngläser
Sanitätsmaterial (unter anderem Rucksäcke, Verbandspäckchen)
38 Laserentfernungsmesser
Kraftstoff Diesel und Benzin (laufende Lieferung)
10 Tonnen AdBlue
500 Stück Wundauflagen zur Blutstillung
500 Stück Verpflegungsrationen
Lebensmittel: 2.025 Paletten (68 Lkw-Ladungen) mit 360.000 Rationen Einpersonenpackungen (EPa)
MiG-29 Ersatzteile
30 sondergeschützte FahrzeugeAt least it looks a little better than what I thought. Now they need to rush to get the heavy-duty stuff delivered.
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@Klaus said in Meanwhile in Germany...:
3.000 Patronen „Panzerfaust 3“ zuzüglich 900 Griffstücke
14.900 Panzerabwehrminen
500 Fliegerabwehrraketen STINGER
2.700 Fliegerfäuste STRELA
16 Millionen Schuss Handwaffenmunition
50 Bunkerfäuste
100 Maschinengewehre MG 3 mit 500 Ersatzrohren und Verschlüssen
100.000 Handgranaten
5.300 Sprengladungen
100.000 Meter Sprengschnur und 100.000 Sprengkapseln
350.000 Zünder
23.000 Gefechtshelme
15 Paletten Bekleidung
178 Kraftfahrzeuge (Lkw, Kleinbusse, Geländewagen)
100 Zelte
12 Stromerzeuger
6 Paletten Material für Kampfmittelbeseitigung
125 Doppelfernrohre
1.200 Krankenhausbetten
18 Paletten Sanitätsmaterial, 60 OP-Leuchten
Schutzbekleidung, OP-Masken
10.000 Schlafsäcke
600 Schießbrillen
1 Radiofrequenzsystem
3.000 Feldfernsprecher mit 5.000 Rollen Feldkabel und Trageausstattung
1 Feldlazarett (gemeinsames Projekt mit Estland)
353 Nachtsichtbrillen
4 elektronische Drohnenabwehrgeräte
165 Ferngläser
Sanitätsmaterial (unter anderem Rucksäcke, Verbandspäckchen)
38 Laserentfernungsmesser
Kraftstoff Diesel und Benzin (laufende Lieferung)
10 Tonnen AdBlue
500 Stück Wundauflagen zur Blutstillung
500 Stück Verpflegungsrationen
Lebensmittel: 2.025 Paletten (68 Lkw-Ladungen) mit 360.000 Rationen Einpersonenpackungen (EPa)
MiG-29 Ersatzteile
30 sondergeschützte FahrzeugeMeanwhile, in English:
3,000 Panzerfaust 3 cartridges plus 900 grips
14,900 anti-tank mines
500 STINGER anti-aircraft missiles
2,700 STRELA flying fists
16 million rounds of handgun ammunition
50 bunker fists
100 MG 3 machine guns with 500 spare barrels and bolts
100,000 hand grenades
5,300 explosive charges
100,000 meters of detonating cord and 100,000 detonators
350,000 detonators
23,000 combat helmets
15 pallets of clothing
178 motor vehicles (trucks, minibuses, SUVs)
100 tents
12 power generators
6 pallets of material for explosive ordnance disposal
125 binoculars
1,200 hospital beds
18 pallets of medical supplies, 60 surgical lights
protective clothing, surgical masks
10,000 sleeping bags
600 shooting glasses
1 radio frequency system
3,000 field telephones with 5,000 reels of field cord and carrying equipment
1 field hospital (joint project with Estonia)
353 night vision goggles
4 electronic anti-drone devices
165 binoculars
Medical supplies (including rucksacks, first-aid kits)
38 laser range finder
Fuel diesel and petrol (current delivery)
10 tons of AdBlue
500 pieces of wound dressings to stop bleeding
500 pieces of food rations
Food: 2,025 pallets (68 truckloads) with 360,000 rations one-pack (EPa)
MiG-29 spare parts
30 armored vehicles
