Light 'em up
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Here in Cincinnati the vast majority are peaceful and do not resist the police. What is telling is they are also majority white kids. Now, whether they understand the complexities of race relations in this country or are just loving having something to act up about I cannot say.
But again, the stupid thing here is that the country is pretty united in condemnation of the Gregory Floyd killing. They are squandering an opportunity for a rational discussion on where to go from here.
wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 14:45 last edited by@Mik said in Light 'em up:
But again, the stupid thing here is that the country is pretty united in condemnation of the Gregory Floyd killing. They are squandering an opportunity for a rational discussion on where to go from here.
Oh yeah. We're waaaaayyyyy past that, Jerry.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
By the way, this business is starting to get reported too.
Sorry for the crappy still. This is a line of cops in Riverside and the couple on the end smashed in that car's windows as they passed. They did it to the ones behind them, too.
Not sure I understand ... you mean the cops are the ones who smashed the cars' windows?
wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 14:46 last edited by@Axtremus said in Light 'em up:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
By the way, this business is starting to get reported too.
Sorry for the crappy still. This is a line of cops in Riverside and the couple on the end smashed in that car's windows as they passed. They did it to the ones behind them, too.
Not sure I understand ... you mean the cops are the ones who smashed the cars' windows?
Yes. The video makes it obvious but links are hard to share on social.
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@Mik said in Light 'em up:
In defense of the police, it would appear they anticipated violence and wanted the porch sitters inside for their safety. Still a bad decision, but with, I think, good motivation.
That's true. And some cops just get keyed up and do something like punch a journalist in the face, or shoot a 16-year-old. Others are straightup kneeling with the protesters and handing out water bottles. And on the other side, just about everyone involved doesn't want to torch or loot local businesses. There's a group of medical folks involved in the DC stuff who are giving first aid to cops and protesters alike, but that's not what makes the news. It's a very complicated situation.
What I'm completely tired of is armchair jackasses saying it isn't complicated. Finding news stories that support what they already want to believe anyway. Fucking shit get a media education why don't you.
wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 15:24 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
What I'm completely tired of is armchair jackasses saying it isn't complicated. Finding news stories that support what they already want to believe anyway. Fucking shit get a media education why don't you.
I would say the first and most important example of everybody losing sight of how complicated the situation is, is when we get outraged about single incidents of police misbehavior happening in a country of 300 million. How when we see those things, we know immediately that the whole system is diseased from the ground up and we need to rebuild it. Like in a normal and sane system, that stuff would simply never happen.
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Here in Cincinnati the vast majority are peaceful and do not resist the police. What is telling is they are also majority white kids. Now, whether they understand the complexities of race relations in this country or are just loving having something to act up about I cannot say.
But again, the stupid thing here is that the country is pretty united in condemnation of the Gregory Floyd killing. They are squandering an opportunity for a rational discussion on where to go from here.
wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 15:29 last edited by Horace 6 Feb 2020, 15:29@Mik said in Light 'em up:
But again, the stupid thing here is that the country is pretty united in condemnation of the Gregory Floyd killing. They are squandering an opportunity for a rational discussion on where to go from here.
I believe the most rational point to make is the killing of Floyd was tragic and a horrible act by the officer, but that we shouldn't extrapolate that to a systemic thing throughout all of policing in America. Which, coincidentally, is exactly how our culture would interpret these sorts of incidents before we all mutually decided that they were the most important things ever.
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@Mik said in Light 'em up:
But again, the stupid thing here is that the country is pretty united in condemnation of the Gregory Floyd killing. They are squandering an opportunity for a rational discussion on where to go from here.
I believe the most rational point to make is the killing of Floyd was tragic and a horrible act by the officer, but that we shouldn't extrapolate that to a systemic thing throughout all of policing in America. Which, coincidentally, is exactly how our culture would interpret these sorts of incidents before we all mutually decided that they were the most important things ever.
wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 15:33 last edited by@Horace said in Light 'em up:
@Mik said in Light 'em up:
But again, the stupid thing here is that the country is pretty united in condemnation of the Gregory Floyd killing. They are squandering an opportunity for a rational discussion on where to go from here.
I believe the most rational point to make is the killing of Floyd was tragic and a horrible act by the officer, but that we shouldn't extrapolate that to a systemic thing throughout all of policing in America. Which, coincidentally, is exactly how our culture would interpret these sorts of incidents before we all mutually decided that they were the most important things ever.
I said and believed as much at the start of this, but at the same time it's total hubris to believe millions of people are just being silly about this and you're actually the one being rational. That if everyone just thought like you did we'd all be happier.
The racism narrative has serious problems but it's not all bullshit. Gladwell's book on police brutality illustrates a part of it pretty well I think.
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@Horace said in Light 'em up:
@Mik said in Light 'em up:
But again, the stupid thing here is that the country is pretty united in condemnation of the Gregory Floyd killing. They are squandering an opportunity for a rational discussion on where to go from here.
I believe the most rational point to make is the killing of Floyd was tragic and a horrible act by the officer, but that we shouldn't extrapolate that to a systemic thing throughout all of policing in America. Which, coincidentally, is exactly how our culture would interpret these sorts of incidents before we all mutually decided that they were the most important things ever.
I said and believed as much at the start of this, but at the same time it's total hubris to believe millions of people are just being silly about this and you're actually the one being rational. That if everyone just thought like you did we'd all be happier.
The racism narrative has serious problems but it's not all bullshit. Gladwell's book on police brutality illustrates a part of it pretty well I think.
wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 15:37 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
@Horace said in Light 'em up:
@Mik said in Light 'em up:
But again, the stupid thing here is that the country is pretty united in condemnation of the Gregory Floyd killing. They are squandering an opportunity for a rational discussion on where to go from here.
I believe the most rational point to make is the killing of Floyd was tragic and a horrible act by the officer, but that we shouldn't extrapolate that to a systemic thing throughout all of policing in America. Which, coincidentally, is exactly how our culture would interpret these sorts of incidents before we all mutually decided that they were the most important things ever.
I said and believed as much at the start of this, but at the same time it's total hubris to believe millions of people are just being silly about this and you're actually the one being rational. That if everyone just thought like you did we'd all be happier.
Oh, I never said that. If you want to talk about what makes people happy, I would claim that it is self-evident that outrage makes people happy. Or at least, they rather enjoy it.
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wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 15:41 last edited by
Yeah but that's armchair outrage. It takes a lot for that many people to spend many hours for this many days out in the streets expressing their outrage. Sure you're going to have irate people who enjoy that kind of thing, too, and some bored people and virtue signalers, but you're still not going to get that kind of volume from just those subsets. In other words, "there's no there there" doesn't apply to this.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
What I'm completely tired of is armchair jackasses saying it isn't complicated. Finding news stories that support what they already want to believe anyway. Fucking shit get a media education why don't you.
I would say the first and most important example of everybody losing sight of how complicated the situation is, is when we get outraged about single incidents of police misbehavior happening in a country of 300 million. How when we see those things, we know immediately that the whole system is diseased from the ground up and we need to rebuild it. Like in a normal and sane system, that stuff would simply never happen.
wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 15:42 last edited by Doctor Phibes 6 Feb 2020, 15:43@Horace said in Light 'em up:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
What I'm completely tired of is armchair jackasses saying it isn't complicated. Finding news stories that support what they already want to believe anyway. Fucking shit get a media education why don't you.
I would say the first and most important example of everybody losing sight of how complicated the situation is, is when we get outraged about single incidents of police misbehavior happening in a country of 300 million. How when we see those things, we know immediately that the whole system is diseased from the ground up and we need to rebuild it. Like in a normal and sane system, that stuff would simply never happen.
I didn't post this with any outrage.
The mistakes made by police might give those who are calling for people to be killed the opportunity to consider the likelihood of more people being killed accidentally by further mistakes made by law enforcement folks. Which, it has to be said, is rather unlikely to help calm the situation.
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@Horace said in Light 'em up:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
What I'm completely tired of is armchair jackasses saying it isn't complicated. Finding news stories that support what they already want to believe anyway. Fucking shit get a media education why don't you.
I would say the first and most important example of everybody losing sight of how complicated the situation is, is when we get outraged about single incidents of police misbehavior happening in a country of 300 million. How when we see those things, we know immediately that the whole system is diseased from the ground up and we need to rebuild it. Like in a normal and sane system, that stuff would simply never happen.
I didn't post this with any outrage.
The mistakes made by police might give those who are calling for people to be killed the opportunity to consider the likelihood of more people being killed accidentally by further mistakes made by law enforcement folks. Which, it has to be said, is rather unlikely to help calm the situation.
wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 15:45 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Light 'em up:
The mistakes made by police might give those who are calling for people to be killed the opportunity to consider the likelihood of people being killed accidentally by further mistakes. Which, it has to be said, is rather unlikely to help calm the situation.
No it won't. We already heard that it was their fault for being there in the first place, that's the story. The same group who's all "it's my right to be outside during the pandemic" has no problem at all saying, "well you shouldn't have been outside" about the innocent victims of this.
Oh and shoot to kill. Because while I'm okay with the protesters and all, there aren't any protesters and they're all bad people, so, well, shoot to kill everyone I guess.
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Yeah but that's armchair outrage. It takes a lot for that many people to spend many hours for this many days out in the streets expressing their outrage. Sure you're going to have irate people who enjoy that kind of thing, too, and some bored people and virtue signalers, but you're still not going to get that kind of volume from just those subsets. In other words, "there's no there there" doesn't apply to this.
wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 15:59 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
Yeah but that's armchair outrage. It takes a lot for that many people to spend many hours for this many days out in the streets expressing their outrage. Sure you're going to have irate people who enjoy that kind of thing, too, and some bored people and virtue signalers, but you're still not going to get that kind of volume from just those subsets. In other words, "there's no there there" doesn't apply to this.
I believe that most peaceful protesters are there as an extension of their armchair, for something to do. People like doing stuff. If it's not waiting in line for hours to attend some live music or sporting event, a righteous protest will certainly do. It's fun and exciting, sorry, but it requires no deeper outrage or the inspiration of personal pain to motivate people to participate in this sort of thing.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
Yeah but that's armchair outrage. It takes a lot for that many people to spend many hours for this many days out in the streets expressing their outrage. Sure you're going to have irate people who enjoy that kind of thing, too, and some bored people and virtue signalers, but you're still not going to get that kind of volume from just those subsets. In other words, "there's no there there" doesn't apply to this.
I believe that most peaceful protesters are there as an extension of their armchair, for something to do. People like doing stuff. If it's not waiting in line for hours to attend some live music or sporting event, a righteous protest will certainly do. It's fun and exciting, sorry, but it requires no deeper outrage or the inspiration of personal pain to motivate people to participate in this sort of thing.
wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 16:03 last edited by@Horace said in Light 'em up:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
Yeah but that's armchair outrage. It takes a lot for that many people to spend many hours for this many days out in the streets expressing their outrage. Sure you're going to have irate people who enjoy that kind of thing, too, and some bored people and virtue signalers, but you're still not going to get that kind of volume from just those subsets. In other words, "there's no there there" doesn't apply to this.
I believe that most peaceful protesters are there as an extension of their armchair, for something to do. People like doing stuff. If it's not waiting in line for hours to attend some live music or sporting event, a righteous protest will certainly do. It's fun and exciting, sorry, but it requires no deeper outrage or the inspiration of personal pain to motivate people to participate in this sort of thing.
If true, that was true four days ago. You can't honestly believe that participation at this point is out of boredom.
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@Horace said in Light 'em up:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
What I'm completely tired of is armchair jackasses saying it isn't complicated. Finding news stories that support what they already want to believe anyway. Fucking shit get a media education why don't you.
I would say the first and most important example of everybody losing sight of how complicated the situation is, is when we get outraged about single incidents of police misbehavior happening in a country of 300 million. How when we see those things, we know immediately that the whole system is diseased from the ground up and we need to rebuild it. Like in a normal and sane system, that stuff would simply never happen.
I didn't post this with any outrage.
The mistakes made by police might give those who are calling for people to be killed the opportunity to consider the likelihood of more people being killed accidentally by further mistakes made by law enforcement folks. Which, it has to be said, is rather unlikely to help calm the situation.
wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 16:03 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Light 'em up:
@Horace said in Light 'em up:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
What I'm completely tired of is armchair jackasses saying it isn't complicated. Finding news stories that support what they already want to believe anyway. Fucking shit get a media education why don't you.
I would say the first and most important example of everybody losing sight of how complicated the situation is, is when we get outraged about single incidents of police misbehavior happening in a country of 300 million. How when we see those things, we know immediately that the whole system is diseased from the ground up and we need to rebuild it. Like in a normal and sane system, that stuff would simply never happen.
I didn't post this with any outrage.
The mistakes made by police might give those who are calling for people to be killed the opportunity to consider the likelihood of more people being killed accidentally by further mistakes made by law enforcement folks. Which, it has to be said, is rather unlikely to help calm the situation.
Right. Because the situation is out of hand because way too many of us think it's totally reasonable to flip out over single incidents of terrible behavior culled from a society of 300 million. That's exactly what I said. And now that same attitude is presented with this new situation where those incidents can be expected to multiply. Ok, so maybe the protesters are trolling the cops and trying to get them to react. Oh, right, that's exactly what many of the peaceful ones are doing. it's almost like it's been totally obvious for my whole life that protesters are there for the story and to participate in something everybody appears to care about.
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wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 16:04 last edited by
I read somewhere recently that we are by nature savage, and that war is but finishing school.
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@Horace said in Light 'em up:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
Yeah but that's armchair outrage. It takes a lot for that many people to spend many hours for this many days out in the streets expressing their outrage. Sure you're going to have irate people who enjoy that kind of thing, too, and some bored people and virtue signalers, but you're still not going to get that kind of volume from just those subsets. In other words, "there's no there there" doesn't apply to this.
I believe that most peaceful protesters are there as an extension of their armchair, for something to do. People like doing stuff. If it's not waiting in line for hours to attend some live music or sporting event, a righteous protest will certainly do. It's fun and exciting, sorry, but it requires no deeper outrage or the inspiration of personal pain to motivate people to participate in this sort of thing.
If true, that was true four days ago. You can't honestly believe that participation at this point is out of boredom.
wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 16:06 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
@Horace said in Light 'em up:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
Yeah but that's armchair outrage. It takes a lot for that many people to spend many hours for this many days out in the streets expressing their outrage. Sure you're going to have irate people who enjoy that kind of thing, too, and some bored people and virtue signalers, but you're still not going to get that kind of volume from just those subsets. In other words, "there's no there there" doesn't apply to this.
I believe that most peaceful protesters are there as an extension of their armchair, for something to do. People like doing stuff. If it's not waiting in line for hours to attend some live music or sporting event, a righteous protest will certainly do. It's fun and exciting, sorry, but it requires no deeper outrage or the inspiration of personal pain to motivate people to participate in this sort of thing.
If true, that was true four days ago. You can't honestly believe that participation at this point is out of boredom.
I am sure the biochemical reactions which result in the feelings the protesters are feeling are identical to the biochemical reactions which result in feelings we could all agree are not armchair feelings. Feelings are feelings.
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wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 16:08 last edited by
@Mik said in Light 'em up:
I read somewhere recently that we are by nature savage, and that war is but finishing school.
Yes, I passed that along here, it was from the Ken Burns Vietnam documentary. It is, of course, true. We are machines for thinking and feeling what our society teaches us to think and feel. For the vast majority of our evolutionary history, the teachings of our society were savage by our current measure, and I suppose it was a more natural state.
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wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 16:11 last edited by
The what, 300 years of The Enlightenment has not erased 250,000 years of natural selection.
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wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 16:17 last edited by
@Mik said in Light 'em up:
The what, 300 years of The Enlightenment has not erased 250,000 years of natural selection.
That part of our brain is a lot older than the rational part, which drives most of our consciousness. We run into trouble when intense emotion drives us back to relying on our baser, older instincts.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Light 'em up:
The mistakes made by police might give those who are calling for people to be killed the opportunity to consider the likelihood of people being killed accidentally by further mistakes. Which, it has to be said, is rather unlikely to help calm the situation.
No it won't. We already heard that it was their fault for being there in the first place, that's the story. The same group who's all "it's my right to be outside during the pandemic" has no problem at all saying, "well you shouldn't have been outside" about the innocent victims of this.
Oh and shoot to kill. Because while I'm okay with the protesters and all, there aren't any protesters and they're all bad people, so, well, shoot to kill everyone I guess.
wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 16:27 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
The same group who's all "it's my right to be outside during the pandemic" has no problem at all saying, "well you shouldn't have been outside" about the innocent victims of this.
I don't know for sure, but I bet that group thinks there is a difference between buying a gallon of milk and smashing in a door and stealing a color TV.
As you point out there really is no difference.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Light 'em up:
@Horace said in Light 'em up:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
What I'm completely tired of is armchair jackasses saying it isn't complicated. Finding news stories that support what they already want to believe anyway. Fucking shit get a media education why don't you.
I would say the first and most important example of everybody losing sight of how complicated the situation is, is when we get outraged about single incidents of police misbehavior happening in a country of 300 million. How when we see those things, we know immediately that the whole system is diseased from the ground up and we need to rebuild it. Like in a normal and sane system, that stuff would simply never happen.
I didn't post this with any outrage.
The mistakes made by police might give those who are calling for people to be killed the opportunity to consider the likelihood of more people being killed accidentally by further mistakes made by law enforcement folks. Which, it has to be said, is rather unlikely to help calm the situation.
Right. Because the situation is out of hand because way too many of us think it's totally reasonable to flip out over single incidents of terrible behavior culled from a society of 300 million. That's exactly what I said. And now that same attitude is presented with this new situation where those incidents can be expected to multiply. Ok, so maybe the protesters are trolling the cops and trying to get them to react. Oh, right, that's exactly what many of the peaceful ones are doing. it's almost like it's been totally obvious for my whole life that protesters are there for the story and to participate in something everybody appears to care about.
wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 17:01 last edited by Doctor Phibes 6 Feb 2020, 17:01@Horace said in Light 'em up:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Light 'em up:
@Horace said in Light 'em up:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
What I'm completely tired of is armchair jackasses saying it isn't complicated. Finding news stories that support what they already want to believe anyway. Fucking shit get a media education why don't you.
I would say the first and most important example of everybody losing sight of how complicated the situation is, is when we get outraged about single incidents of police misbehavior happening in a country of 300 million. How when we see those things, we know immediately that the whole system is diseased from the ground up and we need to rebuild it. Like in a normal and sane system, that stuff would simply never happen.
I didn't post this with any outrage.
The mistakes made by police might give those who are calling for people to be killed the opportunity to consider the likelihood of more people being killed accidentally by further mistakes made by law enforcement folks. Which, it has to be said, is rather unlikely to help calm the situation.
Right. Because the situation is out of hand because way too many of us think it's totally reasonable to flip out over single incidents of terrible behavior culled from a society of 300 million. That's exactly what I said. And now that same attitude is presented with this new situation where those incidents can be expected to multiply. Ok, so maybe the protesters are trolling the cops and trying to get them to react. Oh, right, that's exactly what many of the peaceful ones are doing. it's almost like it's been totally obvious for my whole life that protesters are there for the story and to participate in something everybody appears to care about.
To be fair, you'd have been saying that after the Boston Tea Party
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Light 'em up:
@LuFins-Dad said in Light 'em up:
Yes. Open fire. At people that were peacefully and legally sitting on their porch. You see, the curfew allowed for these people to be outside as long as they were legally on private residential property, which these people were.
It's hard to imagine why some people feel alienated from the police after seeing this level of hands-on community policing.
But that's not the story I like to hear in my 'Murrican echo chamber so here, let me either contrive some nonsense about that story being untrue, or far easier, I'll just cherry-pick some articles of my own about Antifa so that I can ignore what you just told me.
wrote on 2 Jun 2020, 17:32 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Light 'em up:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Light 'em up:
@LuFins-Dad said in Light 'em up:
Yes. Open fire. At people that were peacefully and legally sitting on their porch. You see, the curfew allowed for these people to be outside as long as they were legally on private residential property, which these people were.
It's hard to imagine why some people feel alienated from the police after seeing this level of hands-on community policing.
But that's not the story I like to hear in my 'Murrican echo chamber so here, let me either contrive some nonsense about that story being untrue, or far easier, I'll just cherry-pick some articles of my own about Antifa so that I can ignore what you just told me.
And let us cherry-pick for the other side.
Gimmee a break.
One of the cops from my nephew's shift was stabbed chasing idiot protesters this week. If you didn't live in Jacksonville, you'd never know it happened.
The media shapes the narrative. I think the media helped create the violence.
BTW, this part of 'Murica is pretty peaceful and quiet...
