The Doctor Cartel
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AMA is a pile of stinking dog shit, on fire.
In 2016, it had 240K members, out of over a million docs.
There's a reason for that.
I was a member for about 6 years, and that was only because we could get our health insurance through AMA cheaper than other places.
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There's also a lot of bullshit at the end of this video.
Why should a nurse be supervised by a doctor, he asks?
Well, from personal experience, I can tell you when my parotid gland acted up, I was misdiagnosed as a cellulitis. Wrong diagnosis, and I knew it when I walked out. Fortunately, the treatment was the same.
He advocates for independent nurse midwives. Okay, wanna talk about the breech presentation, or the twin pregnancy, or the placenta previa? Who is going to take care of those? Not the nurse who doesn't know one end of a scalpel from another.
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Thought you might enjoy some of that.
Stossel does bring up a few questions...
- Are we educating and training doctors in the most efficient manner possible?
- Are we turning out enough doctors? If not, what should be done?
- What do we do about rural healthcare?
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion.
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@Jolly said in The Doctor Cartel:
Thought you might enjoy some of that.
Stossel does bring up a few questions...
- Are we educating and training doctors in the most efficient manner possible?
- Are we turning out enough doctors? If not, what should be done?
- What do we do about rural healthcare?
Speaking of bullshit, now it's MANDATED by CMS that when you see your doc, s/he inquire about things like, "Do you feel unsafe at home?", "Do you have feelings of sadness?", "Have you considered hurting yourself?"
But regarding your questions:
- Are we educating and training doctors in the most efficient manner possible?
Absolutely not. My school, Northwestern, had a 6-year program. Basically, you went to college for 2 years, and then joined the medical school class, being awarded your BS after the 1st year of medical school. Of my class of 160, 60 were so-called "shunts." That's one good way to be more efficient. Looking at the curriculum and goals of Northwestern, there are lots of areas focusing on equity, diversity, etc. I'd guess looking into a microscope and tracing the vagus nerve on a cadaver might be more productive.
- Are we turning out enough doctors? If not, what should be done?
No, of course not. Too expensive. Who wants to get a job earning $250K (or more) when saddled with $250K in debt? Also, see my answer above. Streamline education.
- What do we do about rural healthcare?
Incentivize it. Just like the military will (or used to) pay for your eductation, with you serving one year for every year they cover, incentivize rural care. Eliminate the malpractice "tail" so that it won't cost you tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars if you want to move out of state.
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Let's look at the six year program...We have schools down here that produce PharmD's in the same amount of time, with a 2+4 curriculum. Competition is fierce. But the programs produce good pharmacists.
Is there any difference in quality between the six-year doc and the more traditional route?
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion.
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@Jolly said in The Doctor Cartel:
Is there any difference in quality between the six-year doc and the more traditional route?
Not in my experience.
However, there's something to be said for a broader liberal-arts education. Indefinable, surely, but perhaps of value.
OTOH, did taking courses in geography, philosophy, economics, German make me a better doc? Nope.
Looks like Northwestern shut down their program.
https://www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/sites/hpme/
Interesting post here.
I am a parent, and a physician. I would say that most students, at the age of 17 ( when they make the decision to accept , most are not 18 ) do not really know why they want to become a physician ( don't forget, going to these schools imply that you have chosen the career path PERMANENTLY ). Most students are motivated by the prestige of being a physician,and the parental ( stress parental ) pride that comes from going to medical school. This country's medical system needs good,self-motivated physicians.
I am also voluntary faculty at a med school, one with a 6 yr program ( but I don't sit on the admissions committee ).
I went through 4 years of premed at a top US News and WR university, and consider it to have been a major galvanizing experience . There are learning opportunities there( not necessarily academic ) there for any capable student, one not available when you go to a 6 yr program. Although in the 6 yrs, you're into that med school on day 1, you have to still complete undergrad at THAT institution.
Consider this, firstly, the 6 yr med students are usually in a glass cage when they go to that school, the undergrads don't know how to relate to them, and the regular med students too, because they are always part time on each campus, and have a different curriculum , and different advisors. Thus , their friends are limited to those in the program, maybe, 10 per year. Compare that to an undergrad class of 1000-2000. I know, because that's the way we saw those students when our school used to have a 7 yr program ( they got rid of it, much to their credit ). I took a class with these 6-7yr students, along with some undergrad friends of mine, the professor was a distinguished professor emeritus of the med school. Guess what, all the undergrads got As, and the 6 yrs got Bs. Shows motivation, and learning, I feel. Those 6yr med students were not pressured to get the grades, because they were already IN ! They squandered the opportunity to learn. Actually, they were robbed of the opportunity.Competition is a GOod thing.
Some premeds didn't make it, the college experience helped them decide that. That is necessary, in our system of education. I consider not getting into med school a learning experience, (albeit a sometimes difficult one ), one that should not be short circuited.
Look at the list of 6 yr programs. None are prestigious medical schools ( yes,Brown and Northwestern are NOT prestigious MED schools, look em up ), and all but 2 are at prestigious colleges. Worse,at Sophie Davis' 6 yr, you go to the CUNY campus , Stonybrook, you go to a SUNY campus (along with 40,000 other students).
Most of these schools added a 6 yr program in order to get students that normally wouldn't have gone there. Would you go to Meharry or CUNY over HYP, Penn, Wash U? I hope not.
If the student is talented enough to get into a top USNWR undergrad college, as most of them are, on this thread, then they are talented enough to successfully navigate the premed curriculum, and get into med school the usual way.
I am counseling my daughter to not apply to these programs. She wants a career in biology, possibly medicine, has SATS 1 & 2 in the 760s, and is in the top 2-3% of her class at a well known HS. I want her to learn ( academically, intellectually, and interpersonally) for the benefit of HER future, not mine.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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Also, the hoops that FMGs have to jump through to work here are insane.
I worked with many guys from Pakistan, India, and other countries who couldn't get a job as physician, so they were employed as surgical assistants. One pulmonologist, one ICU doc - they spent years holding retractors and tying knots.
Criminal, IMO.
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@George-K said in The Doctor Cartel:
@Jolly said in The Doctor Cartel:
Is there any difference in quality between the six-year doc and the more traditional route?
Not in my experience.
However, there's something to be said for a broader liberal-arts education. Indefinable, surely, but perhaps of value.
OTOH, did taking courses in geography, philosophy, economics, German make me a better doc? Nope.
Looks like Northwestern shut down their program.
https://www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/sites/hpme/
Interesting post here.
I am a parent, and a physician. I would say that most students, at the age of 17 ( when they make the decision to accept , most are not 18 ) do not really know why they want to become a physician ( don't forget, going to these schools imply that you have chosen the career path PERMANENTLY ). Most students are motivated by the prestige of being a physician,and the parental ( stress parental ) pride that comes from going to medical school. This country's medical system needs good,self-motivated physicians.
I am also voluntary faculty at a med school, one with a 6 yr program ( but I don't sit on the admissions committee ).
I went through 4 years of premed at a top US News and WR university, and consider it to have been a major galvanizing experience . There are learning opportunities there( not necessarily academic ) there for any capable student, one not available when you go to a 6 yr program. Although in the 6 yrs, you're into that med school on day 1, you have to still complete undergrad at THAT institution.
Consider this, firstly, the 6 yr med students are usually in a glass cage when they go to that school, the undergrads don't know how to relate to them, and the regular med students too, because they are always part time on each campus, and have a different curriculum , and different advisors. Thus , their friends are limited to those in the program, maybe, 10 per year. Compare that to an undergrad class of 1000-2000. I know, because that's the way we saw those students when our school used to have a 7 yr program ( they got rid of it, much to their credit ). I took a class with these 6-7yr students, along with some undergrad friends of mine, the professor was a distinguished professor emeritus of the med school. Guess what, all the undergrads got As, and the 6 yrs got Bs. Shows motivation, and learning, I feel. Those 6yr med students were not pressured to get the grades, because they were already IN ! They squandered the opportunity to learn. Actually, they were robbed of the opportunity.Competition is a GOod thing.
Some premeds didn't make it, the college experience helped them decide that. That is necessary, in our system of education. I consider not getting into med school a learning experience, (albeit a sometimes difficult one ), one that should not be short circuited.
Look at the list of 6 yr programs. None are prestigious medical schools ( yes,Brown and Northwestern are NOT prestigious MED schools, look em up ), and all but 2 are at prestigious colleges. Worse,at Sophie Davis' 6 yr, you go to the CUNY campus , Stonybrook, you go to a SUNY campus (along with 40,000 other students).
Most of these schools added a 6 yr program in order to get students that normally wouldn't have gone there. Would you go to Meharry or CUNY over HYP, Penn, Wash U? I hope not.
If the student is talented enough to get into a top USNWR undergrad college, as most of them are, on this thread, then they are talented enough to successfully navigate the premed curriculum, and get into med school the usual way.
I am counseling my daughter to not apply to these programs. She wants a career in biology, possibly medicine, has SATS 1 & 2 in the 760s, and is in the top 2-3% of her class at a well known HS. I want her to learn ( academically, intellectually, and interpersonally) for the benefit of HER future, not mine.
I'm glad he has money enough to burn.
