Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?

[Horace]

The Chinese guy we went camping with last summer grew up in the middle of nowhere in China where there was almost no schooling. He taught himself math, because he had a knack for it and it was the sort of subject that you need no materials for, just text books. Which he somehow procured for himself. He eventually got a PhD in math and now works for a major bank in this area. I can promise you he wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the sort of intelligence that happens to be testable.

[Jolly]

@Horace said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

The Chinese guy we went camping with last summer grew up in the middle of nowhere in China where there was almost no schooling. He taught himself math, because he had a knack for it and it was the sort of subject that you need no materials for, just text books. Which he somehow procured for himself. He eventually got a PhD in math and now works for a major bank in this area. I can promise you he wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the sort of intelligence that happens to be testable.

Was he as proficient in other subjects?

[Catseye3]

@Jolly In the book How To Master the Art of Selling, the author explains something all good salespersons learn sooner or later. People fool themselves when they believe they're buying a thing for good, well thought-out reasons. What actually happens is that they spy the item and want it, and then after the fact come up with all sorts of reasons why buying the thing is a good practical thing to do.

The example he used is the guy in the showroom trying to decide whether to buy the SUV or the sports car. He had kids. Somehow or other, he talked himself into buying the sports car.

[Horace]

@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

@Horace said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

The Chinese guy we went camping with last summer grew up in the middle of nowhere in China where there was almost no schooling. He taught himself math, because he had a knack for it and it was the sort of subject that you need no materials for, just text books. Which he somehow procured for himself. He eventually got a PhD in math and now works for a major bank in this area. I can promise you he wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the sort of intelligence that happens to be testable.

Was he as proficient in other subjects?

I don't know.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Horace said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

The Chinese guy we went camping with last summer grew up in the middle of nowhere in China where there was almost no schooling. He taught himself math, because he had a knack for it and it was the sort of subject that you need no materials for, just text books. Which he somehow procured for himself. He eventually got a PhD in math and now works for a major bank in this area. I can promise you he wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the sort of intelligence that happens to be testable.

'Intelligence' is a rather nebulous concept. Personally, I'd say somebody who is really good at maths is intelligent, but some people would say that it means nothing if he doesn't know how to breed pigs. It might be better to say this guy is really good at maths, and this other guy is good at breeding pigs.

Most of us probably equate intelligence with being good at stuff we respect, and not with stuff that we don't understand.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Horace said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

@Horace said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

The Chinese guy we went camping with last summer grew up in the middle of nowhere in China where there was almost no schooling. He taught himself math, because he had a knack for it and it was the sort of subject that you need no materials for, just text books. Which he somehow procured for himself. He eventually got a PhD in math and now works for a major bank in this area. I can promise you he wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the sort of intelligence that happens to be testable.

Was he as proficient in other subjects?

I don't know.

How were his tent-pitching skills? Or was he smart enough to allow you to do all the work?

[Horace]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

@Horace said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

@Jolly said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

@Horace said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

The Chinese guy we went camping with last summer grew up in the middle of nowhere in China where there was almost no schooling. He taught himself math, because he had a knack for it and it was the sort of subject that you need no materials for, just text books. Which he somehow procured for himself. He eventually got a PhD in math and now works for a major bank in this area. I can promise you he wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the sort of intelligence that happens to be testable.

Was he as proficient in other subjects?

I don't know.

How were his tent-pitching skills? Or was he smart enough to allow you to do all the work?

I think he would pass muster with Jolly and others here. He's a handy man around the house, does a lot of his own remodeling and repair work, and is good in the yard too.

[Horace]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

@Horace said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

The Chinese guy we went camping with last summer grew up in the middle of nowhere in China where there was almost no schooling. He taught himself math, because he had a knack for it and it was the sort of subject that you need no materials for, just text books. Which he somehow procured for himself. He eventually got a PhD in math and now works for a major bank in this area. I can promise you he wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the sort of intelligence that happens to be testable.

'Intelligence' is a rather nebulous concept. Personally, I'd say somebody who is really good at maths is intelligent, but some people would say that it means nothing if he doesn't know how to breed pigs. It might be better to say this guy is really good at maths, and this other guy is good at breeding pigs.

Most of us probably equate intelligence with being good at stuff we respect, and not with stuff that we don't understand.

high scores in math standardized tests predict high scores in language tests, more than high language test scores predict high math scores. That is what I remember from years ago when I looked into SAT and GRE stuff. I recall that people intending to get an advanced math degree scored as high on the language portions of the GRE as the people who intended to get advanced English degrees. Maybe someone will check me on that and let me know that I'm wrong.

[Jolly]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

@Horace said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

The Chinese guy we went camping with last summer grew up in the middle of nowhere in China where there was almost no schooling. He taught himself math, because he had a knack for it and it was the sort of subject that you need no materials for, just text books. Which he somehow procured for himself. He eventually got a PhD in math and now works for a major bank in this area. I can promise you he wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the sort of intelligence that happens to be testable.

'Intelligence' is a rather nebulous concept. Personally, I'd say somebody who is really good at maths is intelligent, but some people would say that it means nothing if he doesn't know how to breed pigs. It might be better to say this guy is really good at maths, and this other guy is good at breeding pigs.

Most of us probably equate intelligence with being good at stuff we respect, and not with stuff that we don't understand.

See, I think high intelligence equates with being able to master multiple highly diverse skills and concepts.

Show me a person who can write a great short story, explain the finer concepts of quantum physics, build his own home and work a room at a cocktail party, and I'll show you a highly intelligent person.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

@Horace said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

The Chinese guy we went camping with last summer grew up in the middle of nowhere in China where there was almost no schooling. He taught himself math, because he had a knack for it and it was the sort of subject that you need no materials for, just text books. Which he somehow procured for himself. He eventually got a PhD in math and now works for a major bank in this area. I can promise you he wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the sort of intelligence that happens to be testable.

'Intelligence' is a rather nebulous concept. Personally, I'd say somebody who is really good at maths is intelligent, but some people would say that it means nothing if he doesn't know how to breed pigs. It might be better to say this guy is really good at maths, and this other guy is good at breeding pigs.

Most of us probably equate intelligence with being good at stuff we respect, and not with stuff that we don't understand.

I think that there's natural aptitude, and then there's curiosity. Natural aptitude is something like fluid intelligence, which is highly overrated. Because a natural ability to pick things up means nothing if you don't actually try to pick anything up.

Curiosity, on the other hand, will always get you there. But the vast, vast majority of us would rather be socially acceptable than curious. And those two are almost always at odds.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

@Horace said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

The Chinese guy we went camping with last summer grew up in the middle of nowhere in China where there was almost no schooling. He taught himself math, because he had a knack for it and it was the sort of subject that you need no materials for, just text books. Which he somehow procured for himself. He eventually got a PhD in math and now works for a major bank in this area. I can promise you he wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the sort of intelligence that happens to be testable.

'Intelligence' is a rather nebulous concept. Personally, I'd say somebody who is really good at maths is intelligent, but some people would say that it means nothing if he doesn't know how to breed pigs. It might be better to say this guy is really good at maths, and this other guy is good at breeding pigs.

Most of us probably equate intelligence with being good at stuff we respect, and not with stuff that we don't understand.

I think that there's natural aptitude, and then there's curiosity. Natural aptitude is something like fluid intelligence, which is highly overrated. Because a natural ability to pick things up means nothing if you don't actually try to pick anything up.

Curiosity, on the other hand, will always get you there. But the vast, vast majority of us would rather be socially acceptable than curious. And those two are almost always at odds.

I think the ability to work really hard is probably better than all of them. Something I've never had, except for short periods of time, when I go freaking nuts at something before inevitably losing motivation.

Gary Kasparov said that the question about whether talent or hard work was more important was missing the point, since the ability to work really hard is a talent.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

@Aqua-Letifer said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

@Horace said in Who here had grandparents who got a college degree?:

The Chinese guy we went camping with last summer grew up in the middle of nowhere in China where there was almost no schooling. He taught himself math, because he had a knack for it and it was the sort of subject that you need no materials for, just text books. Which he somehow procured for himself. He eventually got a PhD in math and now works for a major bank in this area. I can promise you he wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the sort of intelligence that happens to be testable.

'Intelligence' is a rather nebulous concept. Personally, I'd say somebody who is really good at maths is intelligent, but some people would say that it means nothing if he doesn't know how to breed pigs. It might be better to say this guy is really good at maths, and this other guy is good at breeding pigs.

Most of us probably equate intelligence with being good at stuff we respect, and not with stuff that we don't understand.

I think that there's natural aptitude, and then there's curiosity. Natural aptitude is something like fluid intelligence, which is highly overrated. Because a natural ability to pick things up means nothing if you don't actually try to pick anything up.

Curiosity, on the other hand, will always get you there. But the vast, vast majority of us would rather be socially acceptable than curious. And those two are almost always at odds.

I think the ability to work really hard is probably better than all of them. Something I've never had, except for short periods of time, when I go freaking nuts at something before inevitably losing motivation.

Gary Kasparov said that the question about whether talent or hard work was more important was missing the point, since the ability to work really hard is a talent.

I'd argue that you're never going to work really hard at something on any sustained level of enthusiasm unless you're really curious about it.