Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle

[taiwan_girl]

@Mik said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

I don't believe that is true. My car gets 22 around town and 27.2 on the highway. Where I typically drive 80 MPH. I do not believe I would get over 30 MPH if I drove 55. It also depends on transmission - how the power gets transferred to the wheels.

If I remember, driving around town is always less for a gas car, because of the power required to start the car (and weight of the car) going from a stop.

I think the graph shown is true if you are going a steady speed.

[taiwan_girl]

@Copper Here is an article that tries to incorporate the "time function" into the equation.

(https://www.wired.com/story/is-there-an-optimal-driving-speed-that-saves-gas-and-money/)

[Jolly]

@taiwan_girl said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

Easiest way to increase your gas mileage and save money is to decrease speed. Obviously, if you are just driving around the town, different methods are required.

"Speed Kills MPG

Unfortunately, it's true. Your car's gas mileage decreases once it gets past its optimal speed. For most cars, this is around 55-60 mph. This means that every time you go over this speed, you're essentially wasting gas and money - and creating unnecessary greenhouse gases.

You'd be surprised to learn that a slight decrease in your highway driving speed can significantly reduce your gas consumption, while only adding a few minutes to your travel time.
How much?

According to studies backed by the department of energy, the average car will be at its advertised MPG at 55 mph. But as the speed increases:

  - 3% less efficient at 60 mph
  - 8% less efficient at 65 mph
  - 17% less efficient at 70 mph
  - 23% less efficient at 75 mph
  - 28% less efficient at 80 mph


We tried that...

Link to video

[Horace]

Please don’t tell woke people it is virtuous to drive 55 in school zones.

[Mik]

@Jolly Love that song.

[Larry]

@taiwan_girl said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

I think we often look at these directions with the eyes of current technology. For example, in 1975, the average fuel economy for all vehicles in the US was about 12-13 miles in a gallon.

If you told someone then that by 1990, the government would have said that the overall fuel economy would be have to more than double that (for example, up to 26 miles in a gallon), I am sure alot of people would have said "no way!!". Vehicles reached that, were safer, more comfortable, etc.

I dont see any reason why the requirements suggested cannot be met, and still keep a safe comfortable vehicle.

In 1975, the average length of an American built car was 20 feet, and around 2 and a half tons. Two other thi us were happening : 1. Government pencil pushers, people who didn't know jack shit about cars but were armed with a lot if "data" and an invincinble "i know everything" ignorance were slap in the middle of inflicting car makers with smog regulations that made american cars gas guzzling, powerless pieces of crap. 2. THE FREE MARKET. CAPITALISM. The japanese had been selling small, gas efficient little cracker boxes for a few years, cars that got great gas mileage but were a pile of junk in a few years.

But with no forcing from government, the Japanese, while the government pencil pushers armed with their "data" and invincible ignorance were busy destroying e American car industry, were freely and without any government force, examining the weaknesses of their cars, and began improving them. In just a few short years their cars went from tin cans to quality products. Consumers flocked to their dealerships. American car makers saw it, and began competing with them. The result was that gas mileage improved dramatically cars got smaller, and the ONLY thing the government pencil pushers accomplished with their "data driven" bull shit was to make it harder on all carmakers to make better cars.

The next bright idea the pencil pushing "I don't know a thing about cars but I, armed with data" types had was the exact same one being argued now - reduce speed to 55 and cars get better mileage on e anybody else because..... DATA..... so for years we were forced to go 55 down the interstate because well... DATA..... they finally dropped the 55 mph limit - not because it worked, but because it was an absolute, utter failure. "Data" met "real world" and they were finally forced to admit that all it had done was inconvenience people. It didnt save a bit of gas, it didnt reduce traffic accidents - in fact traffic accidents increased - and it wore cars out faster.

But here we are again, a new generation of "data" driven "government regulation is good" types want to try it all again, totally convinced the gains made by car makers are all due to government regulations. Well it wasn't. The gains made were 100% driven by free market competition, done IN SPITE OF all that you seem to believe.

Having already lived through the bull shit once, all I can do is laugh at it.

[Jolly]

The turbo four engine in the base Chevrolet truck gets a very small improvement in mpg over the V8 and the V8 will tow three or four thousand more pounds. With direct fuel injection and turbocharging, it carbons up faster than the V8. Is is very sensitive to lack of maintenance and I promise it will burn more oil as it gets older.

That engine will not routinely get 200,000 miles before laying down and dying.

[taiwan_girl]

In my (I will admit limited) opinion, todays cars last longer and longer than previous generation cars, are safer, have more features, and get better gas mileage. (Yes, most of them pretty much look the same however, while old cars were all pretty unique for each other. LOL)

"Follow your manufacturer’s maintenance schedule and they’ll last a heckuva long time. But high mileage totals are even easier with today’s vehicles. A typical passenger car should last 200,000 miles or more, says Rich White, executive director of the nonprofit Car Care Council (which offers a free car care guide).

Another way of looking at it: “The average lifespan [of a car] is now almost 12 years,” says Eric Lyman, chief analyst at TrueCar. “It’s been a slow and steady climb over the past decades.”

That’s because cars are smarter, better designed and better built than they were 20 to 30 years ago. Automated factories have led to high-precision manufacturing. Parts are more reliable. Electric systems have replaced mechanical systems, which reduces breakdowns and improves engine efficiency. Better oil has increased intervals for oil changes — from every 3,000 miles to as high as every 15,000 miles. New coolants can last the car’s lifetime.
Expected Mileage From Today's Vehicles

Standard Cars : 200,000 miles
Electric Cars: 300,000 miles

“Ten years ago, you’d need to change your spark plugs probably every 30,000 miles — now it’s every 100,000 miles,” says Jill Trotta, a longtime mechanic and vice president, industry advocacy and sales, for RepairPal Inc., which certifies repair shops.

Technology, however, is the main reason for longer-lasting vehicles. Most improvements in efficiency, emissions, safety, reliability and longevity are from “microprocessors, microcontrollers and extensive unseen networks on board the cars themselves,” writes Cars.com Executive Editor Joe Wiesenfelder. Such improvements are increasing not only cars’ lifespans, but manufacturer warranties. Three years, 36,000 miles used to be standard, but 10-year, 100,000-mile warranties are becoming the norm. "

[Jolly]

Anybody that would put 15,000 miles on their oil is an idiot and not to be taken seriously.

Very few new cars will make 200,000 miles. Many CVT transmissions will barely make 100,000 miles without replacement, which is hideously expensive. Start/stop technology deprives engines of oil at their most needful time. Direct injection carbons up pistons and causes blow-by on the rings.

Turbocharging causes premature engine wear and aluminum blocks are essentially disposable. New engines are quite expensive, as much as $7000-$8000 for many engines. More for high-performance motors.

And besides very few things, work on your car yourself, especially if you don't have the proper scan tool.

Go ahead, try it.

[Mik]

I can get maybe 10,000 on a full synthetic oil change, but I usually go less.

Unless you have tiny little elf hands you can't get in to do much. I used to be able to stand in the engine compartment of my 65 Galaxy to work on it. (Of course it had a truck 240 6 banger in it, but still... )

[Doctor Phibes]

I remember cars in the 60's, 70's and 80's. They were shit.

I'd much rather be driving what I have now.

I have no wish whatsoever to tinker about with engines. My dad used to have to mess about with the bloody car all the time. It was like an ongoing project that never ended. Fergeddaboudit.

[Larry]

@Jolly said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

Anybody that would put 15,000 miles on their oil is an idiot and not to be taken seriously.

Very few new cars will make 200,000 miles. Many CVT transmissions will barely make 100,000 miles without replacement, which is hideously expensive. Start/stop technology deprives engines of oil at their most needful time. Direct injection carbons up pistons and causes blow-by on the rings.

Turbocharging causes premature engine wear and aluminum blocks are essentially disposable. New engines are quite expensive, as much as $7000-$8000 for many engines. More for high-performance motors.

And besides very few things, work on your car yourself, especially if you don't have the proper scan tool.

Go ahead, try it.

But....... "DATA".........

[George K]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

I remember cars in the 60's, 70's and 80's. They were shit.

You're too kind. Not only were they shit in terms of mechanical stuff, they rusted through.

My parents bought a new car every 4-5 years. My first car, a 1968 Mustang, lasted 4 years. Horrible, horrible car.

I'd much rather be driving what I have now.

I have no wish whatsoever to tinker about with engines.

Same here, but I can see it being a hobby for some. Fortunately, they're so complicated that it's becoming impossible to do as "a hobby."

At the season finale of one Top Gear series, Clarkson went on and on about how damn good cars have become. Safe, reliable, and fun to drive, mostly.

I don't miss them either.

[Doctor Phibes]

@George-K said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

Same here, but I can see it being a hobby for some. Fortunately, they're so complicated that it's becoming impossible to do as "a hobby."

My father in law owns and maintains a 1937 Riley Merlin. It's quite lovely, and it's a wonderful hobby. You wouldn't want to have to rely on it for anything.

[George K]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

My father in law owns and maintains a 1937 Riley Merlin. It's quite lovely, and it's a wonderful hobby. You wouldn't want to have to rely on it for anything.

Like, transportation, right?

[Copper]

@George-K said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

I remember cars in the 60's, 70's and 80's. They were shit.

You're too kind.

I don't miss them either.

Way too kind.