Xenon, the White Supremacist
-
I’m surprised how small the intersection is between people who think authorities should intervene to stop BLM protesters from blocking streets and people who think authorities should intervene when these pilgrims do it too. Anyway, I stand there proudly.
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 17:07 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
I’m surprised how small the intersection is between people who think authorities should intervene to stop BLM protesters from blocking streets and people who think authorities should intervene when these pilgrims do it too. Anyway, I stand there proudly.
What about other protests that block streets? We saw them during the run-up to the Iraq war (I remember trying to drive down State Street at that time)?
Want to protest? Get a permit.
But to draw equivalence between the two is, to a great extent, misguided.
When you can show a picture of Ottowa that looks like this, in OUR national capital, then there's an equivalence:
-
@jon-nyc said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
I’m surprised how small the intersection is between people who think authorities should intervene to stop BLM protesters from blocking streets and people who think authorities should intervene when these pilgrims do it too. Anyway, I stand there proudly.
What about other protests that block streets? We saw them during the run-up to the Iraq war (I remember trying to drive down State Street at that time)?
Want to protest? Get a permit.
But to draw equivalence between the two is, to a great extent, misguided.
When you can show a picture of Ottowa that looks like this, in OUR national capital, then there's an equivalence:
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 18:01 last edited by RenaudaThere is no equivalence, at least not yet despite the seized weapons and ammunition cache and arrests Monday at the border protest south of where I live. I also do not believe Jon was trying draw an equivalence with the BLM riots either.
This is about law enforcement and the restoration of order. Over the course of the next few days it will be Parliament, not the mob, that will decide upon and vote on the pending enforcement legislation. In the meantime the mob has been put on legal notice to disperse immediately or risk arrest and financial consequences.
-
There is no equivalence, at least not yet despite the seized weapons and ammunition cache and arrests Monday at the border protest south of where I live. I also do not believe Jon was trying draw an equivalence with the BLM riots either.
This is about law enforcement and the restoration of order. Over the course of the next few days it will be Parliament, not the mob, that will decide upon and vote on the pending enforcement legislation. In the meantime the mob has been put on legal notice to disperse immediately or risk arrest and financial consequences.
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 18:22 last edited by@renauda said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
There is no equivalence, at least not yet
And your Prime Minister supported the BLM demonstrations, while remaining silent on the billions of dollars of damage that were caused.
In my book, he holds no moral authority in that regard. He may well feel (as you do) that these should be put down. My point is simply that when it's occurring on your doorstep, the morality changes, eh?
-
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 18:31 last edited by jon-nyc
I don't understand your point George. I was comparing one set of demonstrators blocking the highways to another. That they were blocking the highway is I need to know. I don't need to have some threshold level of vandalism to also occur in order for me to come to a conclusion.
I'd have been all for removing the BLM guys from the highways even if the summer riots of 2020 had not occurred at all.
-
@renauda said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
There is no equivalence, at least not yet
And your Prime Minister supported the BLM demonstrations, while remaining silent on the billions of dollars of damage that were caused.
In my book, he holds no moral authority in that regard. He may well feel (as you do) that these should be put down. My point is simply that when it's occurring on your doorstep, the morality changes, eh?
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 19:13 last edited by RenaudaNo, the morality doesn’t change. My support is for Parliamentary rule of law not the misguided actions of one of its members. So what if Trudeau took a knee at a BLM protest/demonstration in Ottawa? We did not experience the same level of violence here as in the US and BLM in this country is not nearly as radicalized as in the US. I would agree though Trudeau ought not to have been there at that event any more than Conservative Party Members of Parliament cheering on the so-called Freedom Convoy protesters ten days ago.
Nevertheless, just as some of protesters in the convoy have legitimate and reasonable claims so too do some BLM supporters as well as the many aboriginal groups in this country. It is only when these reasonable people’s cause is hijacked by militant and radical elements on either side of the political spectrum that problems arise and mob rule rears its ugly head. That’s what happened in the US and that is where this Freedom Convoy movement has been heading here in this country.
Disagree with me if you wish, but what Trudeau said or did regarding BLM is of no consequence to what is occurring under his watch right now. As one pundit described it, so long as Trudeau is being blamed for the damage caused to Canada by the protest, by invoking the Emergency Act he is at least willing to absolve the municipalities and provinces from any ownership of the failure to deal with the protests and place it squarely on his own shoulders and the federal government.
-
I’m surprised how small the intersection is between people who think authorities should intervene to stop BLM protesters from blocking streets and people who think authorities should intervene when these pilgrims do it too. Anyway, I stand there proudly.
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 19:25 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
I’m surprised how small the intersection is between people who think authorities should intervene to stop BLM protesters from blocking streets and people who think authorities should intervene when these pilgrims do it too. Anyway, I stand there proudly.
I think there exists a lot difference between a peaceful protest and one that is not.
-
No, the morality doesn’t change. My support is for Parliamentary rule of law not the misguided actions of one of its members. So what if Trudeau took a knee at a BLM protest/demonstration in Ottawa? We did not experience the same level of violence here as in the US and BLM in this country is not nearly as radicalized as in the US. I would agree though Trudeau ought not to have been there at that event any more than Conservative Party Members of Parliament cheering on the so-called Freedom Convoy protesters ten days ago.
Nevertheless, just as some of protesters in the convoy have legitimate and reasonable claims so too do some BLM supporters as well as the many aboriginal groups in this country. It is only when these reasonable people’s cause is hijacked by militant and radical elements on either side of the political spectrum that problems arise and mob rule rears its ugly head. That’s what happened in the US and that is where this Freedom Convoy movement has been heading here in this country.
Disagree with me if you wish, but what Trudeau said or did regarding BLM is of no consequence to what is occurring under his watch right now. As one pundit described it, so long as Trudeau is being blamed for the damage caused to Canada by the protest, by invoking the Emergency Act he is at least willing to absolve the municipalities and provinces from any ownership of the failure to deal with the protests and place it squarely on his own shoulders and the federal government.
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 19:45 last edited by@renauda said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
No, the morality doesn’t change. My support is for Parliamentary rule of law not the misguided actions of one of its members. So what if Trudeau took a knee at a BLM protest/demonstration in Ottawa? We did not experience the same level of violence here as in the US and BLM in this country is not nearly as radicalized as in the US. I would agree though Trudeau ought not to have been there at that event any more than Conservative Party Members of Parliament cheering on the so-called Freedom Convoy protesters ten days ago.
Nevertheless, just as some of protesters in the convoy have legitimate and reasonable claims so too do some BLM supporters as well as the many aboriginal groups in this country. It is only when these reasonable people’s cause is hijacked by militant and radical elements on either side of the political spectrum that problems arise and mob rule rears its ugly head. That’s what happened in the US and that is where this Freedom Convoy movement has been heading here in this country.
Disagree with if you wish, but what Trudeau said or did regarding BLM is of no consequence to what is occurring under his watch right now. As one pundit described it, so long as Trudeau is being blamed for the damage caused to Canada by the protest, by invoking the Emergency Act he is at least willing to absolve the municipalities and provinces from any ownership of the failure to deal with the protests and place it squarely on his own shoulders and the federal government.
Militant - combative and aggressive in support of a political or social cause, and typically favoring extreme, violent, or confrontational methods.
I'll give you confrontational, but I don't think peaceful protest is extreme and the protest in Ottawa has not been violent. You've already admitted the latter.
The truckers say the guns were planted...
https://www.dailydot.com/debug/trucker-protest-guns-stolen-plot-discredit/
Whether they were or not, I don't know, but A) I don't think they were known to exist by either the organizers or 99% of the people that are there, and B) Do you trust the Canadian government not to run a set-up job, considering some of the nefarious things they've already done.
Seems to me, Justin Castro has fucked this up from the word go, and then doubled down on stupid. Look, anybody with the brain of a microencephalitic jackass knows that vaccine mandates are unworkable and going the way of the Do-do bird. All Junior had to do, was meet with leadership, admit what everybody already knows, make some muttering noises about the primacy of provincial government and assure the protesters that he would use the power of the Canadian government to try to bring about change.
Instead, Brave Sir Robin ran at the first sign of a Peterbilt, which is strange, since it looks like that's the only peter he's ever run from.
-
@renauda said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
No, the morality doesn’t change. My support is for Parliamentary rule of law not the misguided actions of one of its members. So what if Trudeau took a knee at a BLM protest/demonstration in Ottawa? We did not experience the same level of violence here as in the US and BLM in this country is not nearly as radicalized as in the US. I would agree though Trudeau ought not to have been there at that event any more than Conservative Party Members of Parliament cheering on the so-called Freedom Convoy protesters ten days ago.
Nevertheless, just as some of protesters in the convoy have legitimate and reasonable claims so too do some BLM supporters as well as the many aboriginal groups in this country. It is only when these reasonable people’s cause is hijacked by militant and radical elements on either side of the political spectrum that problems arise and mob rule rears its ugly head. That’s what happened in the US and that is where this Freedom Convoy movement has been heading here in this country.
Disagree with if you wish, but what Trudeau said or did regarding BLM is of no consequence to what is occurring under his watch right now. As one pundit described it, so long as Trudeau is being blamed for the damage caused to Canada by the protest, by invoking the Emergency Act he is at least willing to absolve the municipalities and provinces from any ownership of the failure to deal with the protests and place it squarely on his own shoulders and the federal government.
Militant - combative and aggressive in support of a political or social cause, and typically favoring extreme, violent, or confrontational methods.
I'll give you confrontational, but I don't think peaceful protest is extreme and the protest in Ottawa has not been violent. You've already admitted the latter.
The truckers say the guns were planted...
https://www.dailydot.com/debug/trucker-protest-guns-stolen-plot-discredit/
Whether they were or not, I don't know, but A) I don't think they were known to exist by either the organizers or 99% of the people that are there, and B) Do you trust the Canadian government not to run a set-up job, considering some of the nefarious things they've already done.
Seems to me, Justin Castro has fucked this up from the word go, and then doubled down on stupid. Look, anybody with the brain of a microencephalitic jackass knows that vaccine mandates are unworkable and going the way of the Do-do bird. All Junior had to do, was meet with leadership, admit what everybody already knows, make some muttering noises about the primacy of provincial government and assure the protesters that he would use the power of the Canadian government to try to bring about change.
Instead, Brave Sir Robin ran at the first sign of a Peterbilt, which is strange, since it looks like that's the only peter he's ever run from.
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 20:46 last edited by RenaudaWell, the truckers are wrong, the guns were not planted. The thirteen who were arrested were, as the saying goes, known to police. I’ll take the word of the RCMP on the issue who have now later charges of Conspiracy to Commit Murder on three or four of the thirteen arrested at the scene.
As to your last two paragraphs..,.you know, you’re probably right although I find it more than just a little bit amusing that you think you know so much about how this country is governed and what Canadians think about their government. I personally prefer to listen to the knowledgeable and objective criticism of Trudeau and his government from Yves Blanchett, leader of the Bloc Québécois and the cautionary advice of the federal NDP regarding the Emergency Act, rather than the uninformed opinions and frankly ignorant folksy epithets and musings of a right wing republocrat from outside the country.
-
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 21:03 last edited by
Why do American conservatives suddenly dislike Trudeau so much? He's clearly a bit crap, but it has to be said there are a lot worse leaders to get your knickers in a twist over. I've heard more praise for Vladimir Putin, and that guy's a total cunt.
They do realise that Canada isn't actually part of 'Murrica, right?
Or maybe they've just given up tidying up their own room as an insurmountable task, and decided it would be much easier to complain about the mess in the neighbour's yard?
-
Why do American conservatives suddenly dislike Trudeau so much? He's clearly a bit crap, but it has to be said there are a lot worse leaders to get your knickers in a twist over. I've heard more praise for Vladimir Putin, and that guy's a total cunt.
They do realise that Canada isn't actually part of 'Murrica, right?
Or maybe they've just given up tidying up their own room as an insurmountable task, and decided it would be much easier to complain about the mess in the neighbour's yard?
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 21:27 last edited by Renauda@doctor-phibes said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
Why do American conservatives suddenly dislike Trudeau so much?
Don’t know and don’t care. It’s their problem if they can’t get their mind around the fact a PM is thought of differently by the electorate in a parliamentary system than is a president in a republic.
I've heard more praise for Vladimir Putin, and that guy's a total cunt..
Probably because Putin hates and fears George Soros as much, if not more, than they. Besides that Putin is quite respectful towards a well known American real estate tycoon and one time politician, whose business empire attracts the good will and offshore investments of close friends and associates of the Russian President.
They do realise that Canada isn't actually part of 'Murrica, right?
I have my doubts.
-
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 21:30 last edited by Doctor Phibes
The argument seems to be 'HOW DARE YOU DO THIS? LOOK AT ALL THE REALLY VIOLENT PROTESTS IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT COUNTRY THAT WERE ALLOWED TO TAKE PLACE BY OUR SHIT GOVERNMENT!!!!'
-
The argument seems to be 'HOW DARE YOU DO THIS? LOOK AT ALL THE REALLY VIOLENT PROTESTS IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT COUNTRY THAT WERE ALLOWED TO TAKE PLACE BY OUR SHIT GOVERNMENT!!!!'
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 21:36 last edited by RenaudaI hope you’re not suggesting they might be envious. I figured it was because we are shutting down their funding schemes to the occupiers and assumed right to interfere in what us none of their business.
-
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 21:37 last edited by
Internet media helps political movements and concerns go more global.
The nation state may just be a pit stop in the evolution of politics.
-
Internet media helps political movements and concerns go more global.
The nation state may just be a pit stop in the evolution of politics.
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 21:42 last edited by@xenon said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
Internet media helps political movements and concerns go more global.
The nation state may just be a pit stop in the evolution of politics.
Right, and of all the tyrannical countries to complain about, Canada is right on top of the list!
-
@xenon said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
Internet media helps political movements and concerns go more global.
The nation state may just be a pit stop in the evolution of politics.
Right, and of all the tyrannical countries to complain about, Canada is right on top of the list!
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 21:45 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
@xenon said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
Internet media helps political movements and concerns go more global.
The nation state may just be a pit stop in the evolution of politics.
Right, and of all the tyrannical countries to complain about, Canada is right on top of the list!
Well - as you pointed out - I think what appealed to some people was a political kinship with the truckers. No one really gives a shit about Canadian politics. (Not even Canadians....)
-
@doctor-phibes said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
@xenon said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
Internet media helps political movements and concerns go more global.
The nation state may just be a pit stop in the evolution of politics.
Right, and of all the tyrannical countries to complain about, Canada is right on top of the list!
Well - as you pointed out - I think what appealed to some people was a political kinship with the truckers. No one really gives a shit about Canadian politics. (Not even Canadians....)
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 21:47 last edited by Doctor Phibes@xenon said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
No one really gives a shit about Canadian politics. (Not even Canadians....)
As a Canadian/British dual-national living in the US, I must admit I find the politics of the north quite reassuring
-
@doctor-phibes said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
@xenon said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
Internet media helps political movements and concerns go more global.
The nation state may just be a pit stop in the evolution of politics.
Right, and of all the tyrannical countries to complain about, Canada is right on top of the list!
Well - as you pointed out - I think what appealed to some people was a political kinship with the truckers. No one really gives a shit about Canadian politics. (Not even Canadians....)
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 22:10 last edited by Renauda@xenon said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
@doctor-phibes said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
@xenon said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
No one really gives a shit about Canadian politics. (Not even Canadians....)
I can understand people outside the country being disinterested, after all other than a few arcane international trade and investment policies what happens here politically is no consequence to others. But to include Canadians themselves among the disinterested is a quite an exaggeration.
-
@xenon said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
@doctor-phibes said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
@xenon said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
No one really gives a shit about Canadian politics. (Not even Canadians....)
I can understand people outside the country being disinterested, after all other than a few arcane international trade and investment policies what happens here politically is no consequence to others. But to include Canadians themselves among the disinterested is a quite an exaggeration.
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 22:17 last edited by xenon@renauda said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
But to include Canadians themselves among the disinterested is a quite an exaggeration.
I'm being cheeky, but I grew up in Canada and moved to the States a few years ago.
Political discussion in Canada are positively anodyne compared the U.S. In the years of Trump, I wouldn't be surprised if American politics got more front-page coverage in Canada than Canadian politics.
-
Internet media helps political movements and concerns go more global.
The nation state may just be a pit stop in the evolution of politics.
wrote on 16 Feb 2022, 22:25 last edited by@xenon said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
Internet media helps political movements and concerns go more global.
The nation state may just be a pit stop in the evolution of politics.
Stop and look how the Ottawa protest has been framed (and I do mean framed) in Canadian media. I often complain about the bias of American media. Nice to know our friends to the North are not one whit better.
-
@renauda said in Xenon, the White Supremacist:
But to include Canadians themselves among the disinterested is a quite an exaggeration.
I'm being cheeky, but I grew up in Canada and moved to the States a few years ago.
Political discussion in Canada are positively anodyne compared the U.S. In the years of Trump, I wouldn't be surprised if American politics got more front-page coverage in Canada than Canadian politics.