Power Before Patients?
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I just dont get the whole pro-vaccine/anti vaccine passions.
And I dont understand why there is the thought that it is some power play by politicians to have a requirement. What are they gaining by requiring it in terms of power? Does it make them more popular? More likely to get re-elected? What is this "power" they are obtaining?
Are the governors who are putting rules in place that do not allow masking or vaccines also doing a power play? What is the power they are gainng?
If a rule to put something in place is a power play, then a rule to stop putting something in place is a power play also.
It is really sad that this has become so political.
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I just dont get the whole pro-vaccine/anti vaccine passions.
And I dont understand why there is the thought that it is some power play by politicians to have a requirement. What are they gaining by requiring it in terms of power? Does it make them more popular? More likely to get re-elected? What is this "power" they are obtaining?
Are the governors who are putting rules in place that do not allow masking or vaccines also doing a power play? What is the power they are gainng?
If a rule to put something in place is a power play, then a rule to stop putting something in place is a power play also.
It is really sad that this has become so political.
@taiwan_girl said in Power Before Patients?:
I just dont get the whole pro-vaccine/anti vaccine passions.
And I dont understand why there is the thought that it is some power play by politicians to have a requirement. What are they gaining by requiring it in terms of power? Does it make them more popular? More likely to get re-elected? What is this "power" they are obtaining?
Are the governors who are putting rules in place that do not allow masking or vaccines also doing a power play? What is the power they are gainng?
If a rule to put something in place is a power play, then a rule to stop putting something in place is a power play also.
It is really sad that this has become so political.
Power is never given, it is taken. Once taken, it is rarely given back.
Governments love power. And as power grows more absolute, tyranny grows, also.
Omicron has proven that vaccinated people can and do get sick with COVID, but more importantly, can transmit it. Once that fact had been established, there is no scientific rationale for a mandate. And unless we have another rise of a different variant with a high mortality rate, we have the beds to handle a significant number of cases (we may not have the staff, but then that's part of what this thread is about, isn't it?).
At this point, it becomes a case of individual freedom and choice. If you're over 50, if you have one or more comorbidities, I'd urge you to get vaccinated. I think 30-50 is a bit of a grey zone, and vaccinations should really be on an individual basis, after consultation with one's physician. 12-29? Take the vaccine if you want to, but I'd sure like to see some more studies on serious side effects of the vaccine vs. COVID symptoms and mortality. 11 and under? We might be causing more harm than good.
Again, let's take this out of the political realm and keep it in the medical realm. A medical realm based on peer reviewed science - not drug company sponsored - that looks at the efficacy of the vaccine as formulated, along with all possible side effects. Then, let the vaccination decision be between the patient and the physician.
âCry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!â
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terroristsâ "due process". â Buck Sexton
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It is manifestly obvious that mandates are a populist idea. Our current cultural group think is unappreciative of abstract concepts of personal freedom and very appreciative of coerced cooperation with a program that reduces risk. Politicians will opportunistically capitalize on that because that is what politicians do. It is ignorant of how societies work to think that something important and controversial wonât become âpoliticizedâ. It is the role of politics to address such issues, especially when legal coercion is on the table.
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@taiwan_girl said in Power Before Patients?:
I just dont get the whole pro-vaccine/anti vaccine passions.
And I dont understand why there is the thought that it is some power play by politicians to have a requirement. What are they gaining by requiring it in terms of power? Does it make them more popular? More likely to get re-elected? What is this "power" they are obtaining?
Are the governors who are putting rules in place that do not allow masking or vaccines also doing a power play? What is the power they are gainng?
If a rule to put something in place is a power play, then a rule to stop putting something in place is a power play also.
It is really sad that this has become so political.
Power is never given, it is taken. Once taken, it is rarely given back.
Governments love power. And as power grows more absolute, tyranny grows, also.
Omicron has proven that vaccinated people can and do get sick with COVID, but more importantly, can transmit it. Once that fact had been established, there is no scientific rationale for a mandate. And unless we have another rise of a different variant with a high mortality rate, we have the beds to handle a significant number of cases (we may not have the staff, but then that's part of what this thread is about, isn't it?).
At this point, it becomes a case of individual freedom and choice. If you're over 50, if you have one or more comorbidities, I'd urge you to get vaccinated. I think 30-50 is a bit of a grey zone, and vaccinations should really be on an individual basis, after consultation with one's physician. 12-29? Take the vaccine if you want to, but I'd sure like to see some more studies on serious side effects of the vaccine vs. COVID symptoms and mortality. 11 and under? We might be causing more harm than good.
Again, let's take this out of the political realm and keep it in the medical realm. A medical realm based on peer reviewed science - not drug company sponsored - that looks at the efficacy of the vaccine as formulated, along with all possible side effects. Then, let the vaccination decision be between the patient and the physician.
@jolly said in Power Before Patients?:
Omicron has proven that vaccinated people can and do get sick with COVID, but more importantly, can transmit it. Once that fact had been established, there is no scientific rationale for a mandate.
I disagree a bit. People without vaccines has been proven to be sicker and more hospitalized. If the new "normal" is the current staffing levels, then they are taking beds away from people who need them for other reasons.
Should we get rid of seat belt laws? What is the purpose of them?
Again, as part of living in a civilized society, there are things we all have to do that we do not agree with.
If people want to experience a country without rules and government interference, take a trip to Ethiopia or Sudan.
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@taiwan_girl said in Power Before Patients?:
Are the governors who are putting rules in place that do not allow masking or vaccines also doing a power play?
Please name one Governor that has banned masking or vaccines. I know of none. I do know some that are attempting to prevent vaccine or masking requirements, but thatâs a very different debate.
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@jolly said in Power Before Patients?:
Omicron has proven that vaccinated people can and do get sick with COVID, but more importantly, can transmit it. Once that fact had been established, there is no scientific rationale for a mandate.
I disagree a bit. People without vaccines has been proven to be sicker and more hospitalized. If the new "normal" is the current staffing levels, then they are taking beds away from people who need them for other reasons.
Should we get rid of seat belt laws? What is the purpose of them?
Again, as part of living in a civilized society, there are things we all have to do that we do not agree with.
If people want to experience a country without rules and government interference, take a trip to Ethiopia or Sudan.
@taiwan_girl said in Power Before Patients?:
@jolly said in Power Before Patients?:
Omicron has proven that vaccinated people can and do get sick with COVID, but more importantly, can transmit it. Once that fact had been established, there is no scientific rationale for a mandate.
I disagree a bit. People without vaccines has been proven to be sicker and more hospitalized. If the new "normal" is the current staffing levels, then they are taking beds away from people who need them for other reasons.
Should we get rid of seat belt laws? What is the purpose of them?
Again, as part of living in a civilized society, there are things we all have to do that we do not agree with.
If people want to experience a country without rules and government interference, take a trip to Ethiopia or Sudan.
What do seat belt laws have to do with a leaky vaccine?
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@taiwan_girl said in Power Before Patients?:
@jolly said in Power Before Patients?:
Omicron has proven that vaccinated people can and do get sick with COVID, but more importantly, can transmit it. Once that fact had been established, there is no scientific rationale for a mandate.
I disagree a bit. People without vaccines has been proven to be sicker and more hospitalized. If the new "normal" is the current staffing levels, then they are taking beds away from people who need them for other reasons.
Should we get rid of seat belt laws? What is the purpose of them?
Again, as part of living in a civilized society, there are things we all have to do that we do not agree with.
If people want to experience a country without rules and government interference, take a trip to Ethiopia or Sudan.
What do seat belt laws have to do with a leaky vaccine?
@jolly said in Power Before Patients?:
@taiwan_girl said in Power Before Patients?:
@jolly said in Power Before Patients?:
Omicron has proven that vaccinated people can and do get sick with COVID, but more importantly, can transmit it. Once that fact had been established, there is no scientific rationale for a mandate.
I disagree a bit. People without vaccines has been proven to be sicker and more hospitalized. If the new "normal" is the current staffing levels, then they are taking beds away from people who need them for other reasons.
Should we get rid of seat belt laws? What is the purpose of them?
Again, as part of living in a civilized society, there are things we all have to do that we do not agree with.
If people want to experience a country without rules and government interference, take a trip to Ethiopia or Sudan.
What do seat belt laws have to do with a leaky vaccine?
I guess I am trying to understand what is the opposition to the vaccine.
Is it because
A. people dont want to be told what to do?
B. they dont trust the vaccine?
C. something else?If it is A, then that is why I asked about the safety belts. The government is telling you that you have to (wear a safety belt while driving/clothes to go into a store/vaccines to go to public school/obey a speed limit/stop smoking while in a restaurant/provide an ID to buy a gun/etc etc etc etc)
If it is B, why is there the mistrust? In my opinion, the FDA is pretty much the worldwide "gold" standard for approval of new drugs, etc. Many times, people say that they move too slow in approval of new things. In addition to the FDA, there have been many other inspection bodies that have approved the major vaccines around the world. This is not some virus/vaccine that "popped up" two years ago and that was when research institute's began looking at it only then. I believe I mentioned before but I know someone who is a post-doc at USC in California. The labs there have been researching corona viruses and vaccines for 15 years or so. The product development did not skip any steps.
If it is C, then maybe I could be explained what this is.
I think my thought process is somewhat bias by growing up in an Asian culture. I think it is a lot more common in Asia to have more of a "group think" than an "individual think". Sometimes, the good of society is more important than the rights of an individual.
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@taiwan_girl said in Power Before Patients?:
Sometimes, the good of society is more important than the rights of an individual.
A society with that idea scares the ever luvin crap out of me.
