Today's musical interlude
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@larry said in Today's musical interlude:
I made it clear that it wasn't the music but the snobbery that I didn't like. To prove my point, I posted a link to a modern classical piece that I like. Right out of the gate I was informed that it wasn't "ckassical", didn't even qualify as classical, and sounded like pop music using "classical orchestra instruments. Let me translate that for you:
"Your music is inferior folk music faking it with instruments YOUR music isn't supposed to use.Why are you doing this? This is not at all what I said.
The only one who continually suggests that classical music is "superior", or that some people believe that to be the case, is you. You.
I never made any claim that style one of music is superior to any other style. That would be just silly. I merely maintained that there is such a thing as a musical style and offered my explanation why I think that piece isn't in the classical music style.
Your behaviour here suggests some kind of inferiority complex about the music you like. But there is no need to. There's nothing wrong with the music you like. It isn't inferior to any other style of music, including classical music. People who like other styles of music will not look down on you for the music you like, including most people who like classical music. There is no need to become aggressive whenever anyone talks about it. Just relax about it. Live and let live.
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@klaus said in Today's musical interlude:
@larry said in Today's musical interlude:
I made it clear that it wasn't the music but the snobbery that I didn't like. To prove my point, I posted a link to a modern classical piece that I like. Right out of the gate I was informed that it wasn't "ckassical", didn't even qualify as classical, and sounded like pop music using "classical orchestra instruments. Let me translate that for you:
"Your music is inferior folk music faking it with instruments YOUR music isn't supposed to use.Why are you doing this? This is not at all what I said.
The only one who continually suggests that classical music is "superior", or that some people believe that to be the case, is you. You.
I never made any claim that style one of music is superior to any other style. That would be just silly. I merely maintained that there is such a thing as a musical style and offered my explanation why I think that piece isn't in the classical music style.
Your behaviour here suggests some kind of inferiority complex about the music you like. But there is no need to. There's nothing wrong with the music you like. It isn't inferior to any other style of music, including classical music. People who like other styles of music will not look down on you for the music you like, including most people who like classical music. There is no need to become aggressive whenever anyone talks about it. Just relax about it. Live and let live.
Klaus, you don't have to SAY it, you make it quite clear. And I have no inferiority complex about anything, much less about my tastes in music. You're attempting to project.
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@larry said in Today's musical interlude:
Klaus, you don't have to SAY it, you make it quite clear.
I doubt you can point to anything I ever said that would support that.
It only exists in your mind. When somebody likes classical music, you automatically think that this person must be a snob who looks down on you.
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@klaus said in Today's musical interlude:
When somebody likes classical music, you automatically think that this person must be a snob who looks down on you.
You've distilled my argument.
When somebody likes country music, you automatically think it's someone who likes possum.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@klaus said in Today's musical interlude:
@larry said in Today's musical interlude:
Klaus, you don't have to SAY it, you make it quite clear.
I doubt you can point to anything I ever said that would support that.
It only exists in your mind. When somebody likes classical music, you automatically think that this person must be a snob who looks down on you.
I've never said anyone looks down on me. Whether you see this or not, I've been talking about groups in general, not specific individuals.
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@george-k said in Today's musical interlude:
@klaus said in Today's musical interlude:
When somebody likes classical music, you automatically think that this person must be a snob who looks down on you.
You've distilled my argument.
When somebody likes country music, you automatically think it's someone who likes possum.
Give the man a star.
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Country and Western folk like possum.
Banjo players luuuurve possum.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@doctor-phibes said in Today's musical interlude:
Country and Western folk like possum.
Banjo players luuuurve possum.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, of courseLOL...
I just find it amazing that people (yeah, @Larry ) will denigrate (insert Bob Newhart comment here) an entire genre of music because of the type of people who like it.
I've never eaten
escargotpossum, by the way.Banjo players
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@larry said in Today's musical interlude:
No one does country and western music nowadays..
Interesting comment. What, in your opinion, defines "country" music. Or, for that matter "country and western?"
Or even "western?"
To my snobbish ears, it sounds like soft rock these days.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@george-k said in Today's musical interlude:
@larry said in Today's musical interlude:
No one does country and western music nowadays..
Interesting comment. What, in your opinion, defines "country" music. Or, for that matter "country and western?"
Or even "western?"
To my snobbish ears, it sounds like soft rock these days.
Western music:
Link to video
Traditional country music
Link to video
New country
Link to video
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@larry that's pretty much my impression.
What you labeled today's "Country," is really what we heard in the late 70s - compare it to (gasp) the Rick Astley "Never..."
It has a bit of accentuated beat, some hip-hop vocal styles, embellished with a (probably) fake Southern accent.
It's not bad, and I'd probably listen to it a few times.
But...as I think you're saying, it's not "country," nor "Western."
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Ok... i just read this thread from beginning to end, and i have some observations
I was quite clear from the very beginning to the very end that it wasn't "classical music" that I hated, but the elitism and snobbery that went along with it. At no point did I claim that everyone who likes classical music was an elitist snob, I was very careful to NOT make it personal. But a few decided to internalize my impersonal comments about the snobbery and elitism and take it personal, and then proceed to display the very elitism that I was referring to. I wanted to see if anything I had said was a personal attack on someone, and apologize if I had done so. But I didn't, and do not owe an apology to anyone. I can't help it if what I say gets taken personally if it wasn't meant that way.
But look at the direction things went .... "I would like to like 'classical music but I can't tolerate the snobbery attached to it'" led to "your example of classical music isn't classical music", I was informed that certain musical instruments weren't supposed to be used by "folk musicisns", I was informed that I had an inferiority complex because I objected to those two points ( a personal attack), and in essence was told that it was ok to say "my" kind of music wasn't allowed to use "classical orchestra instruments" a(!!whatever that means) and "my" kind of music evoked thoughts of rednecks eating possum... but I must have a personal problem of feeling inferior by saying I don't like snobbery or elitism... just keep my possum eating hands off the "classical orchestra instruments"...,
"There's no snobbery or elitism attached to classical music, you redneck possum eater with an inferiority complex!!"
Then I was asked to define what "classical music" was, and essentially told that if I didn't accept a certain definition of the term I was wrong... a definition by the way, that actually proved my point by acknowledging that classical music evolves... then told why it's not allowed to evolve....
Ok.... on to more productive things.. several people made some very insightful and excellent points. LD, Renauda, some others, made some excellent points.
But the MUSIC got left behind right out of the gate, smothered by commentary about what is allowed to be "classical" and what musical instruments possum eating rednecks are allowed to play.....
In my initial post I gave 2 links to music, the second one which I referred to as "classical". I wish to further explode some heads by pointing out that a bicycle is called a bicycle because the majority of people have come to know a device with 2 wheels that you ride and that is powered by pedalling with your feet is referred to as a bicycle. If the word "shitcan" had been associated with a pedal powered 2 wheel transportation device instead, people would go shitcan riding. A similar point was made by Phibes. Now to explode a few heads...
The actual classical music if one uses MY definition of the term, is the first video......
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My definition of "classical music":
Music evolves. It makes advances. Gregorian chants were at one point "pop(ular) music. As music evolved and advanced, new styles of music that were unique, or different, or more complex, became "pop(ular)" and Gregorian chants were relegated to "classical" music. Gregorian chants were still just as beautiful as before, but the style no longer was evolving or advancing. There was a new game in town. Some people I imagine viewed this new style of music as inferior to their beloved Gregorian chants, and felt personally offended by anyone who dared refer to this new style of music as being more advanced, or equal to in any way, those beloved Gregorian chants. Vivaldi????? Music?????? BAH!!!
But the audiences for this new music grew larger, and since sound systems hadn't been invented yet, music needed to evolve and advance so that it could project further out in the room. The pianoforte was invented, and music evolved. Not only could music project further into the auditorium thanks to advances in room design, this new instrument had more sustain... the music before that stopped evolving, a new music was taking it's place... more dynamic, more flexible....... the soft, gentle harpsichord sounds were giving way to new rock stars like Franz Liszt who was beating 2 and 3 instruments flat in a single performsnce... pianos improved.. advancemts in design were made to enable the instrument to withstand the physical beating of the rock stars like Liszt,etc....
And now, Vivaldi and his ilk gave way, and became "classics"....stopped evolving... a new game was in town..
Speed up to the re entpadt... boom!! The Beatlez!!! And so on...
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Meant to post this here ...
My "today's musical interlude" :
Link to videoAnyway, when I read this thread (which then spilled over to the 'What is "Classical" Music' thread), instead if adding more words to argue over definitions, I just went to play (and record) something instead.
Classification/labeling is useful for marketing and promotion, useful for cataloging and organization, useful to facilitate searching, but not strictly needed to listen to or to create music. Unless commercial interests are involved, just listen to whatever you like, play whatever you like, labels be darned.
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@axtremus said in Today's musical interlude:
Link to videoMeant to post this here ...
My "today's musical interlude" :
Link to videoAnyway, when I read this thread (which then spilled over to the 'What is "Classical" Music' thread), instead if adding more words to argue over definitions, I just went to play (and record) something instead.
Classification/labeling is useful for marketing and promotion, useful for cataloging and organization, useful to facilitate searching, but not strictly needed to listen to or to create music. Unless commercial interests are involved, just listen to whatever you like, play whatever you like, labels be darned.
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@larry said in Today's musical interlude:
My definition of "classical music":
Music evolves. It makes advances. Gregorian chants were at one point "pop(ular) music. As music evolved and advanced, new styles of music that were unique, or different, or more complex, became "pop(ular)" and Gregorian chants were relegated to "classical" music. Gregorian chants were still just as beautiful as before, but the style no longer was evolving or advancing. There was a new game in town. Some people I imagine viewed this new style of music as inferior to their beloved Gregorian chants, and felt personally offended by anyone who dared refer to this new style of music as being more advanced, or equal to in any way, those beloved Gregorian chants. Vivaldi????? Music?????? BAH!!!
But the audiences for this new music grew larger, and since sound systems hadn't been invented yet, music needed to evolve and advance so that it could project further out in the room. The pianoforte was invented, and music evolved. Not only could music project further into the auditorium thanks to advances in room design, this new instrument had more sustain... the music before that stopped evolving, a new music was taking it's place... more dynamic, more flexible....... the soft, gentle harpsichord sounds were giving way to new rock stars like Franz Liszt who was beating 2 and 3 instruments flat in a single performsnce... pianos improved.. advancemts in design were made to enable the instrument to withstand the physical beating of the rock stars like Liszt,etc....
And now, Vivaldi and his ilk gave way, and became "classics"....stopped evolving... a new game was in town..
Speed up to the re entpadt... boom!! The Beatlez!!! And so on...
So "classical music" to you is the body of music that was or is popular at some point?
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@klaus said in Today's musical interlude:
@larry said in Today's musical interlude:
My definition of "classical music":
Music evolves. It makes advances. Gregorian chants were at one point "pop(ular) music. As music evolved and advanced, new styles of music that were unique, or different, or more complex, became "pop(ular)" and Gregorian chants were relegated to "classical" music. Gregorian chants were still just as beautiful as before, but the style no longer was evolving or advancing. There was a new game in town. Some people I imagine viewed this new style of music as inferior to their beloved Gregorian chants, and felt personally offended by anyone who dared refer to this new style of music as being more advanced, or equal to in any way, those beloved Gregorian chants. Vivaldi????? Music?????? BAH!!!
But the audiences for this new music grew larger, and since sound systems hadn't been invented yet, music needed to evolve and advance so that it could project further out in the room. The pianoforte was invented, and music evolved. Not only could music project further into the auditorium thanks to advances in room design, this new instrument had more sustain... the music before that stopped evolving, a new music was taking it's place... more dynamic, more flexible....... the soft, gentle harpsichord sounds were giving way to new rock stars like Franz Liszt who was beating 2 and 3 instruments flat in a single performsnce... pianos improved.. advancemts in design were made to enable the instrument to withstand the physical beating of the rock stars like Liszt,etc....
And now, Vivaldi and his ilk gave way, and became "classics"....stopped evolving... a new game was in town..
Speed up to the re entpadt... boom!! The Beatlez!!! And so on...
So "classical music" to you is the body of music that was or is popular at some point?
Of course. All music is popular at some point. Liszt wasn't writing "classical music" he was creating new music.
