Summing up the Gates haters
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The existence of internet memes appears to be sufficient justification for left wing sneering at how crazy the right tends to be. In seriousness, the Russians and any other professional or avocational trolls can very easily use that. American culture is so easy to troll because individuals are so eager to have their tribal biases confirmed.
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@Mik said in Summing up the Gates haters:
I just cannot understand the Gates haters. Here is a guy who has pledged his fortune and his life to the betterment of life here on earth. He has done immense good for possibly millions already.
I cannot imagine having that wealth and not doing that.
I agree.
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@taiwan_girl said in Summing up the Gates haters:
@Mik said in Summing up the Gates haters:
I just cannot understand the Gates haters. Here is a guy who has pledged his fortune and his life to the betterment of life here on earth. He has done immense good for possibly millions already.
I cannot imagine having that wealth and not doing that.
I agree.
A big part of it has to do with the manner that Gates acquired his wealth. Let's face it, the guy did fvck over an awful lot of his competitors on his way to the top including stealing innovations. The guy bullied his employees and many of his vendors. The guy may have pulled a complete 180, but he did build quite a reputation as an asshole and a lot of people have long memories.
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@Mik said in Summing up the Gates haters:
I just cannot understand the Gates haters.
Windows 3.1.1.
How soon you forget.
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Gates has funded many ideas and influenced way beyond expectations. He interjects his ideas, or support, via his massive checkbook. Some ideas work, some don't.
He initiated the "houses" concept in public high schools, his "small schools initiative" concept inside of large comprehensive high schools. It was not a research based initiative, but boy, when he brings out that checkbook! It did not work, it was considered a very bad idea for a number of reasons. Lasted for several years (sorry kids), and is no longer around.
Gates checkbook was involved and was a catalyst for Common Core State Standards. He funded via Achieve Inc., without his heavy influence, Common Core would not have gotten off the ground. Coleman et al. were paid indirectly, by Gates, to write and implement the CCSS, as well as his funding of PARCC as well as SBAC, the testing which made Common Core a curriculum. That's the most influential thing one can do in society: curriculum for the public schools.
Anyway, my point is that people like Gates and Soros and the rest, can change society and regions of the world, via their checkbooks. Sometimes it's a good idea, sometimes it's not.
Money changes everything.
But, I never voted for Gates. And that bothers me the most.
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That bothers me least.
And that sort of collectivist argument surprises me from you. I want 100s of extremely wealthy people trying out their own ideas philanthropically to see what works. Some will be ideological but even those will be different ideologies from different people. Compare that to ‘the people we voted for’ having a monopoly on where charity is spent. If that sounds like a good idea to you, imagine some future with a President Ocasio-Cortez (or equivalent) and a Speaker Ilhan (or equivalent) having a monopoly on such spending and tell me you don’t want your billionaires back.
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Jon, if AOC gets into a position as you outline, we deserve what we get. She is voted into office, or will be voted in as president.
Don't confuse helping eliminate disease (Gates) with social experiments in American public education.
And, I'm not all that sure what Gates has done in Africa goes without criticism, sometimes.
I will not sit back and enjoy how multi-billionaires think people should live and behave, just as I won't support those in politics that want to tell us how to live and behave, outside this pandemic, I guess.
What if Rainman suddenly got wealthy beyond belief? Would you mind if I spend my money to indoctrinate kids in public school to what I believe is "right" in terms of curriculum?
If so, let me develop a curriculum for your child. It should be just as good as if I could afford to support a curriculum for millions of children, right?
Send me your address, I've got plenty of "adheres to Common Core Standards" textbooks handed out by publishers hoping we would buy their indoctrination.
"Critical Thinking Skills." Yeah, right. READ it as a parent should, then tell me about what skills are being developed for the average child.
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Quoting myself:
"I will not sit back and enjoy how multi-billionaires think people should live and behave, just as I won't support those in politics that want to tell us how to live and behave, outside this pandemic, I guess."My quote above is not true. It's the same thing, except how the money is channeled. Whether the billionaires fund behind the scenes, or indirectly fund political candidates: same effect, same influence.
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I didn’t vote for Carnegie either but certainly benefitted from growing up with one of his libraries.
That Gates is not elected doesn’t bother me at all. Most of the institutions we cherish today, particularly the arts, were not government projects but philanthropy. Anyone can try to sell their ideas for a better world, and usually should. That he has more ability due to his fortune doesn’t exempt him from having to have support other than money.
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Saying that Bill Gates shouldn't use his money actively is basically saying you want the government to control everything. If you think that will reduce indoctrination, you haven't been concentrating.
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Mik:
"I didn’t vote for Carnegie either but certainly benefitted from growing up with one of his libraries."OK, that's a stupid comparison.
Gates can build as many libraries as he wants, I will agree that is great!
But Carnegie DID NOT tell the people after constructing a library, or establishing the Carnegie Commission, WHAT was to be in the library, or what music should be played.
Is it really that hard to understand, what the difference is?
Geeze, I believe I am making some sense in the words I use, but it's like people do not, or do not want, to understand.
Fine, you're right. End of discussion.
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I trust Bill Gates a lot more than I trust the people you dumb colonials vote for.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Summing up the Gates haters:
I trust Bill Gates a lot more than I trust the people you dumb colonials vote for.
+1
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Manipulating what people think and feel is certainly within the power of those with lots of money and it is certainly normal to have a big issue with it if you do not agree with whatever ideas are being distributed. But that is a different question than what to do about it in general. The only entity that can stop folks with lots of money is the government so you have to pick your poison.
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@Horace said in Summing up the Gates haters:
The only entity that can stop folks with lots of money is the government so you have to pick your poison.
Impossible to stop the influence, when your hand is out taking their money to begin with. Or is it that a politician can take huge amounts of money and those with "lots of money" expect nothing in return?
Riiiiight.How can you say, "Manipulating what people think and feel is certainly within the power of those with lots of money and it is certainly normal to have a big issue with it if you do not agree with whatever ideas are being distributed."
That's not a problem, based upon what I'm trying to get across. It's not you I'm concerned about. But, give me your kids for several hours a day throughout the school year, and if you are the typical parent, you don't have a clue what's going on in your child's school, or where the money way in the background, comes from.
Blind faith. No thanks.
End result, those with billions influence and steer, politicians could stop it, but will not bite the hand that feeds them. It's not a left/right issue, it's Koch vs. Soros, the new Masters of the Universe vs. the Old School money like Gates. But in the end, there's nothing I can do about it. I've seen the results of Big Money in public education, as the State is always out of sufficient funding, so there are ample opportunities for the moneyed to step in quietly and take up some of the slack.
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@Rainman said in Summing up the Gates haters:
Impossible to stop the influence, when your hand is out taking their money to begin with. Or is it that a politician can take huge amounts of money and those with "lots of money" expect nothing in return?
So you agree that outsized “big money” influence is (1) not good and (2) hard to get away from. Let’s get working on boosting the marginal income tax rates for the very high brackets, institute a “wealth tax” on the ultra wealthy, boost support for the low income. Basically you want to support policies that reduce wealth inequality and reduce income inequality. That way you reduce “big money” and its power over the rest of society. Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Sen. Bernie Sanders have many good policy ideas along those lines. I hope you find something you like and support them.
