A year's worth of suicide attempts
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Because it again assumes the economic problems were caused by the shelter in place order as opposed to a collapse in demand that pre- and post-dates any such orders and exists in multitudes of places where no such orders have been issued.
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Because it again assumes the economic problems were caused by the shelter in place order as opposed to a collapse in demand that pre- and post-dates any such orders and exists in multitudes of places where no such orders have been issued.
@jon-nyc said in A year's worth of suicide attempts:
Because it again assumes the economic problems were caused by the shelter in place order as opposed to a collapse in demand that pre- and post-dates any such orders and exists in multitudes of places where no such orders have been issued.
But the argument in the part you quoted was specifically about forcing people to stay at home, and how that increases suicide risks. There's an economic aspect to it (as I pointed out), but that situation alone can be life-changing, even completely without regard to economic concerns.
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Again, the staying-at-home is mostly caused by the threat of the virus and not specific government orders.
This is a recurring type of denialism that has forever coursed through the arguments of the covid doves - that getting back to pre-virus life is simply a matter of issuing the right executive order.
(And I mean denialism in the psychological sense, not any reference to ‘climate denialism’)
Only non-witches get due process.
- Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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@George-K said in A year's worth of suicide attempts:
https://abc7news.com/suicide-covid-19-coronavirus-rates-during-pandemic-death-by/6201962/
First of all, I don't think that anyone in that news story is saying the suicide rate is up because of the stay-at-home order. The people are making observations of what they see, and they claim that's unprecedented. Draw whatever conclusion you wish, be it because of the fear of virus, the shutdown, whatever. The fact that there's been a serious uptick in self-injury is indisputable, at least at this one facility (though we don't, as you say, know specific numbers).
Secondly, as Klaus points out, there are significant psychological traumas that are occurring because of this - just ask my 4 ½ year old granddaughter who started wetting her pants about 6 weeks ago. It's a major disruption, and peeing your pants is one way of not coping, self-injury is another.
The increase in self injury and mental distress is not unique to Muir Medical Center either. Los Angeles crisis hotline has seen an increase of 8,900% (not a typo) in calls, and 20% express suicidal desire. Alabama has seen a 900% increase in calls.
Sydney University predicts an additional 750 to 1500 suicides per year for 5 years, a 25-50% increase.
There's been a huge increase in domestic violence calls to the police. D1 has never heard as many sirens in her Chicago neighborhood.
Finally, other places (Knox County in TN) have also seen an uptick in suicides. Granted the number is small (I believe only 3-4) and that doesn't make a trend. It does, however, make one notice.
When/if this all blows over, it will be interesting to look at the statistics.
So, as I said, you can attribute, or not, whatever cause you wish. The fact that this is having a huge emotional toll stands.
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You are right that government policy is one thing, and what would voluntarily do another thing (self-imposed isolation etc.). However, the two are not independent. Government and media paint a picture. That picture has a huge influence on what the public does. If they'd paint a different picture, the public would, at least in part, behave differently. Also, people do behave differently in countries with no or less strict lockdown policies (Sweden etc.). The economy is going down everywhere, regardless of lockdown policy, but that is mainly because nobody is spared from a global economic crisis.
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Again, the staying-at-home is mostly caused by the threat of the virus and not specific government orders.
This is a recurring type of denialism that has forever coursed through the arguments of the covid doves - that getting back to pre-virus life is simply a matter of issuing the right executive order.
(And I mean denialism in the psychological sense, not any reference to ‘climate denialism’)
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First of all, you’d have to be more specific- what policies? I don’t think I’ve ever commented on stay at home orders. I don’t they have much effect on behavior. At least the CA variety where anything you’d realistically go out for is excluded from the policy.
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Other policies about business closures - I’ve often made the point that the demand collapse seems to be mostly a bottom-up phenomenon, but that’s an empirical observation based on data that wasn’t available in early March when these policies were initially being implemented.
I was open to the idea that Sweden’s economy would continue apace. It just turned out not to be the case.
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After the stay-at-home order I stayed home more than I would have, but that was probably more due to the virus than the order.
The front page of the paper today says that the Governor is thinking about making masks mandatory whenever you go out.
I just sat around the patio after a golf game with a group of 28 golfers. None were wearing masks. I can't imagine any of them wearing a mask if the governor makes them mandatory.
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In the CDC’s worst case scenario if you are under 50 statistically you have a 99.9% chance of surviving Covid infection. We have completely upended people’s livelihood and lifestyles and forced them to rewrite their future prospects.
Now why would we think we would have mental health concerns. I mean I would rather stay home as a millennial if there was a .01% chance of dying because that’s what they taught me on TV and in college.
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I believe people's thinking about Covid and what to do about it is informed by self-interest and group-think foremost. "What's best for society", however one defines that, isn't really part of the picture, even if everybody swears up and down that it totally is. It's been interesting to watch the group-think enforced by the relentless framing of the debate as sane vs crazy, smart vs stupid. I don't need to tell anybody which side is which in our current cultural narrative.
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I believe people's thinking about Covid and what to do about it is informed by self-interest and group-think foremost. "What's best for society", however one defines that, isn't really part of the picture, even if everybody swears up and down that it totally is. It's been interesting to watch the group-think enforced by the relentless framing of the debate as sane vs crazy, smart vs stupid. I don't need to tell anybody which side is which in our current cultural narrative.
@Horace said in A year's worth of suicide attempts:
I believe people's thinking about Covid and what to do about it is informed by self-interest and group-think foremost. "What's best for society", however one defines that, isn't really part of the picture, even if everybody swears up and down that it totally is. It's been interesting to watch the group-think enforced by the relentless framing of the debate as sane vs crazy, smart vs stupid. I don't need to tell anybody which side is which in our current cultural narrative.
It is curious to me that the narrative around science rarely talks about %’s and real risk factors that a person can relate to. It’s always raw numbers and then of course the young people but without what %. I’d like to make my own assessment of what % chance I have of going bankrupt and not having a career and family to provide for vs % chance of dying if I venture out.
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Young healthy folk who are losing by this shut down have every reason to believe they are sacrificing of themselves for others. But they're just expected to do it without so much as a thank you because it's the only sane and smart option. So says the narrative.
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Young healthy folk who are losing by this shut down have every reason to believe they are sacrificing of themselves for others. But they're just expected to do it without so much as a thank you because it's the only sane and smart option. So says the narrative.
@Horace said in A year's worth of suicide attempts:
Young healthy folk who are losing by this shut down have every reason to believe they are sacrificing of themselves for others. But they're just expected to do it without so much as a thank you because it's the only sane and smart option.
It will be good practice for parenthood.
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Based on Fauci’s recent comments I think he looked at the science behind the economics of the shutdown and went “oh shit”.
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