The Great Songwriters
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My thoughts:
Guthrie - quite the influence, for about 6 years.
Waits - wait, what?
Reed - what significant songs has he done?
Prince - see “Guthrie” comment
Cohen - ah, yes! But without the influence of Simon or Webb
Wilson - again, see Guthrie comment
Wonder - again, see Guthrie comment, but change it to about 4 years.I suppose we’re too close to the expiration date of these songwriters, because not too many other people have recorded their music. After all, who’s done Waits, Prince, Wilson and Wonder?
Guthrie and Cohen…yeah. Hallelujah!
Reed? Nope.
Just spitballing here.
@george-k said in The Great Songwriters:
Reed - what significant songs has he done?
Depends on what you mean by significant.
Walk on the Wild Side, and Perfect Day, maybe.
IMHO, his album New York is a classic. The fact that he's not particularly popular doesn't bother me in the slightest. I think Charlie Parker is the greatest American musician who ever lived, and nobody here listens to him, either.
I was only joking
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Waits - wait, what?
He's been around since forever and his songwriting is at times brilliant. He's like William Gibson—sure you might turn your nose at him because you're an Asimov fan instead, but Gibson invented a genre, and Asimov didn't. Waits has done and is doing the same with his stuff.
I like 5 songs of his, tops, but that's not the point. You said songwriting, not popularity or influence.
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Most Hot 100 No. 1s by Writers
32, Paul McCartney
26, John Lennon
25, Max Martin
18, Mariah Carey
17, Lukasz "Dr. Luke" Gottwald
16, Barry Gibb
15, James "Jimmy Jam" Harris III
15, Brian Holland
15, Terry Lewis
14, Lamont DozierMost Hot 100 No. 1s by Producers
23, George Martin
23, Max Martin
17, Lukasz "Dr. Luke" Gottwald
16, James "Jimmy Jam" Harris III
16, Terry Lewis
15, Mariah Carey
14, Barry Gibb
13, Lamont Dozier
13, Albhy Galuten
13, Brian Holland
13, Karl Richardsonhttps://www.billboard.com/articles/business/chart-beat/9348781/hot-100-writers-producers-most-no-1s
@copper said in The Great Songwriters:
Most Hot 100 No. 1s by Writers
32, Paul McCartney
26, John LennonNext thing, you'll be saying James Bond is a bloody yank.
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@george-k said in The Great Songwriters:
Reed - what significant songs has he done?
Depends on what you mean by significant.
Walk on the Wild Side, and Perfect Day, maybe.
IMHO, his album New York is a classic. The fact that he's not particularly popular doesn't bother me in the slightest. I think Charlie Parker is the greatest American musician who ever lived, and nobody here listens to him, either.
@doctor-phibes said in The Great Songwriters:
Depends on what you mean by significant.
Walk on the Wild Side, and Perfect Day, maybe.I get it.
I guess I'm asking what songwriters' songs have endured. And by that, I mean what other artists consider them significant enough to
copycover.Look at the music of the decades before that, the "Big Band" era. So many versions of so many songs; I suppose Sinatra was more influential than others in that way.
Is there anything from the 50s through the 90s that holds up like that?
As I think back on my post, I realize that not much of Simon's work as been covered, nor much of any other artist.
I guess I'll have to wait another 50 years or so to sort it all out. I can't wait.
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@doctor-phibes said in The Great Songwriters:
Depends on what you mean by significant.
Walk on the Wild Side, and Perfect Day, maybe.I get it.
I guess I'm asking what songwriters' songs have endured. And by that, I mean what other artists consider them significant enough to
copycover.Look at the music of the decades before that, the "Big Band" era. So many versions of so many songs; I suppose Sinatra was more influential than others in that way.
Is there anything from the 50s through the 90s that holds up like that?
As I think back on my post, I realize that not much of Simon's work as been covered, nor much of any other artist.
I guess I'll have to wait another 50 years or so to sort it all out. I can't wait.
@george-k said in The Great Songwriters:
Look at the music of the decades before that, the "Big Band" era. So many versions of so many songs; I suppose Sinatra was more influential than others in that way.
Well, Sinatra didn't write any of it.
The golden era of American songwriting was that of Gershwin, Cole Porter, Jerome Kern, Irving Berlin etc
I was only joking
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@george-k said in The Great Songwriters:
Look at the music of the decades before that, the "Big Band" era. So many versions of so many songs; I suppose Sinatra was more influential than others in that way.
Well, Sinatra didn't write any of it.
The golden era of American songwriting was that of Gershwin, Cole Porter, Jerome Kern, Irving Berlin etc
@doctor-phibes said in The Great Songwriters:
Well, Sinatra didn't write any of it.
Yes, but I think his influence was to popularize it.
Does that even happen any more?
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@doctor-phibes said in The Great Songwriters:
Well, Sinatra didn't write any of it.
Yes, but I think his influence was to popularize it.
Does that even happen any more?
@george-k said in The Great Songwriters:
Yes, but I think his influence was to popularize it.
I'm not sure that's really true. Sinatra came in towards the end of the big band era and as recorded music started becoming more popular, but the songs had been very popular before then. I guess he was the first 'mania' type artist, but he did it by singing the songs that were already widely used as jazz standards prior to that.
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@george-k said in The Great Songwriters:
Yes, but I think his influence was to popularize it.
I'm not sure that's really true. Sinatra came in towards the end of the big band era and as recorded music started becoming more popular, but the songs had been very popular before then. I guess he was the first 'mania' type artist, but he did it by singing the songs that were already widely used as jazz standards prior to that.
@doctor-phibes said in The Great Songwriters:
I guess he was the first 'mania' type artist, but he did it by singing the songs that were already widely used as jazz standards prior to that.
That's what i meant.
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@george-k said in The Great Songwriters:
Look at the music of the decades before that, the "Big Band" era. So many versions of so many songs; I suppose Sinatra was more influential than others in that way.
Well, Sinatra didn't write any of it.
The golden era of American songwriting was that of Gershwin, Cole Porter, Jerome Kern, Irving Berlin etc
@doctor-phibes said in The Great Songwriters:
Jerome Kern
I developed quite a liking to Big Band swing and in particular Artie Shaw. Jerome Kern’s All the Things You Are was a big hit for Artie Shaw’s band in 1939. For me it has become an unrelenting ear worm that follows me around day and night, night and day.
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There's a certain irony to what happened to music in the 40's and 50's. The hard jazz guys basically thought that big band swing was too simplistic and moved to a more complex but less accessible music, whereas pop music went in completely the opposite direction and essentially went back to straightforward 12 bar blues, even it was mostly sung by young white kids.
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@george-k said in The Great Songwriters:
I'm asking what songwriters' songs have endured.
Stephen Foster
George M. Cohan
Irving Berlin
Cole Porter
Henry Mancini
Richard Rogers
Jerome Kernendured
@copper said in The Great Songwriters:
@george-k said in The Great Songwriters:
I'm asking what songwriters' songs have endured.
Stephen Foster
George M. Cohan
Irving Berlin
Cole Porter
Henry Mancini
Richard Rogers
Jerome Kernendured
Arguably above all, George and Ira Gershwin
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@copper said in The Great Songwriters:
@george-k said in The Great Songwriters:
I'm asking what songwriters' songs have endured.
Stephen Foster
George M. Cohan
Irving Berlin
Cole Porter
Henry Mancini
Richard Rogers
Jerome Kernendured
Arguably above all, George and Ira Gershwin
@doctor-phibes said in The Great Songwriters:
Arguably above all, George and Ira Gershwin
Yes, and Berlin.
But my original question was about the 2nd half of the 20th century. Going back to the end of the 20th century, how many songs, and by that I mean "covers," have endured since 1999?
Who's singing "Bridge Over Troubled Water" now?
Is it the prevalence of online streaming that restrict the "covers"? I love hearing other artists do songs not originally recorded by them.
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@doctor-phibes said in The Great Songwriters:
Arguably above all, George and Ira Gershwin
Yes, and Berlin.
But my original question was about the 2nd half of the 20th century. Going back to the end of the 20th century, how many songs, and by that I mean "covers," have endured since 1999?
Who's singing "Bridge Over Troubled Water" now?
Is it the prevalence of online streaming that restrict the "covers"? I love hearing other artists do songs not originally recorded by them.
@george-k said in The Great Songwriters:
@doctor-phibes said in The Great Songwriters:
Arguably above all, George and Ira Gershwin
Yes, and Berlin.
But my original question was about the 2nd half of the 20th century. Going back to the end of the 20th century, how many songs, and by that I mean "covers," have endured since 1999?
Who's singing "Bridge Over Troubled Water" now?
Is it the prevalence of online streaming that restrict the "covers"? I love hearing other artists do songs not originally recorded by them.
It could also have something to do with money-grubbing. Why pay somebody else for writing the song when you can cobble together some inane chant and get all the royalties for yourself? Particularly when the audience seem to perform inane chants to well-crafted classics.
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I think that both @George-K and @Doctor-Phibes are correct.
From what I have read before, the Beatles were kind of the first group to write all their own songs. Before, there were songwriters to do it.
Now, most people and groups think it is a "badge" to write their own songs.
The best songwriters may not be good singers and good singers may not be good songwriters.
